Col Ret
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Historical War Plans

Mon Aug 01, 2016 7:31 pm

Since the documents that the East German and Soviet archives have provided to the Bundesarchiv-Militararchive in Freiburg, Germany, have finally been made accessible to and analyzed by western historians it would be truly great if perhaps the actual German deployment options, for which plans existed at mobilization in 1914, could be made player options for the Grand Campaign game. For historical accuracy it would be excellent if these were called by their proper German names as well, rather than the titles currently used in the game (thus eliminating the “Schlieffen Plan” which we now know did not exist). Historical accuracy could also be extended to the other major powers deployment plans as well. (German: Aufmarsch I West, Aufmarsch II West, and Aufmarsch Ost. Austrian: Plan R and Plan S. French plan XVII and Joffre’s Plan XVII ‘variant’. Russian: Schedule 18, Schedule 18 (modified), and Schedule 19.) Don't you just love history!?

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Nikel
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Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:10 pm

I thought that T Zuber is the only one that maintains that the famous plan did not exist.


And that he is discredited by the scholars, because the original was found and published:

http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0097_spl&object=abstract&st=&l=de

Col Ret
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Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:09 pm

Nikel wrote:I thought that T Zuber is the only one that maintains that the famous plan did not exist.


And that he is discredited by the scholars, because the original was found and published:

http://www.1000dokumente.de/index.html?c=dokument_de&dokument=0097_spl&object=abstract&st=&l=de


Not to get into a long discussion here but it is clear now that Dr Zuber's research has been vindicated and supported by recent analysis of the now available materials (see Strachan for example) and that the 'scholars' have not actually looked at these materials. The handwritten denkschrift you've linked to is not a war plan, if that is the 'original' you are referring to. I argued against Zuber's original thesis for some time myself. It's hard to let go of what has been taught and understood as truth for so long even when presented with hard evidence. I was forced to reconsider the Schlieffen plan when the fact of it's not being the German 1914 war plan was presented in a college course I recently sat in on as a refresher. Scholarship marches on and leaves my old history degree in the dust.

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Nikel
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Mon Aug 01, 2016 9:34 pm

Neither do I, essentially because my knowledge is not enough :neener:

But very interested in the Great War lately and have read a few, and the idea I had was that this book was the last word of this topic. The last chronologically at least because revisionism never ends.

You may read the relevant chapter completely online in google books:

https://books.google.es/books?id=IVjCBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA85&dq=The+Schlieffen+Plan:+International+Perspectives+on+the+German+Strategy+for+World+War+I&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false


Cheers :)

pb783
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Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:32 am

Wow, I love your thoughts on the game. A very impressive introduction to this forum.

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