ShadowofGod
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CP Italy

Sat Sep 05, 2015 4:39 am

I've always been intrigued by possibility of Italy entering on the Central Powers side. Yes, it would have been possible if Austria-Hungary had made territorial concessions in the wake of the Bosnian annexations in 1908, as required by the Triple Alliance treaty. Such concessions done at that time might have had less costs for A-H politically, than would have been the case in 1914 or 1915.

Yes, the Italians had inferior generals and infantry poorly supplied with heavy artillery and machine guns. Their navy was small, with only one dreadnaught. Still, fighting for would have made a considerable difference as opposed to fighting against it. Making the war much more of a 50-50 proposition.

Possible to mod the game so the Italian Concessions are made at the start, with only a 5 morale effect for the CP; Italy joins the CP at the outset?

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McNaughton
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Sat Sep 05, 2015 5:22 pm

I think it is doable, probably event based (given that Belgium could be on either side depending on initial warplans). I am unsure if it would be at all possible through the diplomatic process. Romania also was a nation that could have gone either way in the conflict (I believe the royal family was connected to Germany, and it was a surprise they joined the war on the side they did).

However, I don't think it should be that easy to do (in game terms, not modification), given that it could be very gamey if Austria could relatively easily avoid a third frontline and create a second French frontline...

I figure that this process and percentages (or something along those lines)...

Austria offers territory to Italy, 50-30-20 (50% historic war anyways, 30% Italy remains neutral, 20% Italy goes to war with France).

In this way you are gambling with giving Italy your fortification lines and mountain ranges and they still declare war 50% of the time (putting Austria in a very poor situation indeed), and a much greater chance that Italy will just sit it out compared to a slim chance they will actually declare war on France.

Spain is also an interesting 'what if'... The nation was heavily divided, with possibilities for either side.

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Shri
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Location: INDIA

Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:53 am

There was an event in the old "LGG game" called - DIPLO POKER or something.
Basically, CP (read: Germany) chose to forego the initial advantage of the 1st August Turn, this meant that France and Russia delivered War Declarations (all mobilised and Austria attacks Serbia).
Following declarations of War by the Franco-Russian Alliance, the Germans get an option to invest money and diplomacy into Italy, this leads to a good chance of Italian Neutrality and a small chance of Italian swinging pro-CP even without the "Austrian Concession".
If both- Diplo Poker and the investments are made and then Austria also offers concession, then almost always Italy joined CP.


Looking Back, just a few months before the War, the Italian General in charge of the armies- (sorry, i forget his name) - died.
This guy had an Austrian wife and Conrad (Austrian CoS) had an Italian Mistress, this commonality coupled with Moltke Jr. who was an incompetent General but decent diplomat meant that if he hadn't died and had Cadorna (who hated Austria) become the CoS there would have been a good chance of Italy joining the CP as the Royal Family was quite friendly with Germany and had several relations with the Hapsburgs and Hohenzollerns.
Rascals, would you live forever? - Frederick the Great.

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McNaughton
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Location: Toronto, Canada

Sun Sep 06, 2015 2:38 pm

Yes, Alberto Pollio was the Chief of the General Staff, and yes, very pro-Austrian (came up with the Italian plan of operation, which was actually to become the far left of the Franco-German front rather than trying to fight across the Franco-Italian border). Quite an interesting what-if, in that the Schlieffen plan may actually have had enough strength on the right-front with the Italians freeing up the equivalent of an army. He actually died in the same month as the war started...

I had plans with Pride of Nations to have leaders reflect the change of situations, such as someone NOT being assassinated or die of disease, or someone ACTUALLY being assassinated, to keep historic what-ifs grounded in reality (i.e., Frederick III living longer if Prussia did not fare historically well, with Wilhelm dying and Heinrich becoming emperor providing Germany with a leadership that won't sour with Great Britain, etc.). Pollio was one of those guys, with a technical real life in the game much longer than historcially in case the political situation calls for a close Italy and Austria (sort of to justify a strange result of sandbox play I suppose).

Could be that a 'card' the Western Entente player plays is to have Pollio 'die under mysterious circumstances' (akin to bribing the Ottomans with battleships).

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Shri
Posts: 887
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:57 am
Location: INDIA

Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:57 pm

Interesting to hear that @ Mc Naughton

BTW- do you know, Radomir Putnik was resting in an Austrian Hospital till a few days before the hostilities started and was evacuated by special ambulance hours before Austrian monitors bombarded the Serbian positions.
The GREAT WAR is extremely mysterious in several ways and we are still living in the after-effects of the Great war till today.
Rascals, would you live forever? - Frederick the Great.

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