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Khanti
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Question about force pools

Sun May 14, 2017 9:37 am

1. I know that force pools (number of recruitable units) can be increased in game setup to 200%. But what values should I change to either remove limiting numbers (like for supply trains) or increase it to 400%?

2. If I set rulUnitMaintainance = 1 (in GameRules.opt) what values will be used to determine costs of unit's maintenance?

PS: I know I can edit scn files manually and change all values, but it's tedious work as every unit max pool value is separate number and there are more than 2k units in game.

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Durk
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Re: Question about force pools

Tue May 30, 2017 5:09 am

Why do you want to change force pools, by the way. The given limits work historically as I understand limits.

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Khanti
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Re: Question about force pools

Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:27 am

I suppose, they are connected to historical units deployment. Some people are very happy to restrict themselves to historical numbers of units and their quality (you know: strict number of one kind of tanks in divisions or exact number of AA battalions).

I feel different. For me historical reality are restrictions of war materials (recruits, money, natural resources) not exact numbers of divisions. I would like to be able to change the course of history, e.g. win a IWW by Central Powers. I would like to be able to change what kind of units and when I recruit. In game terms: why should I build only xxx number of mountain divisions? Because staffs in IWW decided that? Well, I don't criticize their historical decisions, but in my computer war the situation can be different (and mostly is) and I could have different needs that in was in real war.

I'm pretty sure, that units numbers were connected to real war plans and abilities of countries to field units. But also abilities were connected to real war situation. If all that things are always different in games, why would player follow strict historical path?

Historically Allies in 1945 disbanded many AA units, because they no longer needed them and move troops to other needs. It was made because sky was mostly clear, but stay assured if German air force would be still a threat, Allies would not disband their AA units. I would like to have such freedom of choice in games, not be limited by designer's chosen numbers (historical). So I love that 200% option.

I'm sure you know that every historical strategy game (when properly designed) is historical only to the very first move (by player or AI). Very first move and very first battle (with always different casualties that historical) reroute a game into semi-historical variant. I am very happy of it, because I don't want to recreate real wars, but play my wars in historical context and restrictions (recruits, money, natural resources) with free will of me as GHQ commander of what to do, when and how. So I always use that 200% variant.

I would like to see an option (script) that remove limit of troops instead forcing limit of resources (war materials) and letting players / AI choose what to build. I can write script addidng troop numbers myself, but I would like to encourage Ageod of doing it. I've seen it in WON (at game start use options->scripts then you can choose a few semi-historical variants: France rule the waves !!)

I know some players will not be happy seeing "ahistrorical" numbers of units, so I only opt for it as option. Some would use it, some not.

I hope it answers your question.

To break that wall of text :eek:
Image

PS: Flexible military organizations.

Example 1 WW2

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/usarmy/artillery.aspx

"However, this massive buildup of AAA units became largely redundant when another formerly poor relation of the US Army, the Army Air Corps, wrested command of the air from the Luftwaffe in 1943 and 1944. Many AAA battalions were disbanded to provide replacements in 1944, some were converted to artillery. A total of 258 battalions were inactivated or disbanded between 1 January 1944 and 8 May 1945. Nevertheless, AAA remained a strong component of the army and achieved something of resurgence in late 1944 in Belgium, defending Antwerp from the threat of the V-1 "Buzzbomb." On 31 December 1944, there was still a total of 347 AAA battalions (with 257,000 men) active in the Army."

Example 2 Ancient

http://www.ancient.eu/Septimius_Severus/

"To strengthen his rule in Italy, he also raised three new legions (I-III Parthica), based the second of these not far from Rome at Alba, and increased the city of Rome’s number of vigils, urban cohorts, and other units, greatly enlarging Rome’s overall garrison."
Meteoryt-like user. Strikes and disappears.

czert2
Brigadier General
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:33 am

Re: Question about force pools

Tue Aug 08, 2017 12:08 pm

well, game can never reproduce all limits of real world war. for your mentioned mountainers, well in reality, every unit type did have pros and cons.
In game mountain units are rulers of ground, not only because they have higher combat power than normal divisions, but have nice mountains bonus too. So under game mechananich ideal corps/armies will consist of only mountain units (3x per crops), marines (1x), and support units (arty, supply, signal corps, enginers..etc),and latter with added tanks.
which is not realistic at all. why ?
because in reality mountains troops were good at what they are suposed to do, figting in mountain terrain, if they were forced to fight at open terrain, they will be at disadvantage compared to normal infantry units. Why ? not only beause weaker arty (less numbers, and less perforing since it was build for ease of tranport, not firepower), but other support weapons and services too. (they did have more man in supply train and less at front compared to normal divs).
So there was realy good reason why in real war mountain units fight were restitted to fight at mountains and not on open terrain.
so unless there are penalties for mountain units fighting on open terrain, limit on mountain/marine units is justified.
and more on mountain units/fights - in game you can have fielded 8 mountain divs on single prov, and have to fight them all here. while in reality you should put 2 or 3 divs there simply because physical limitation of mountains compared to plains, combined with supply probems in mountains.
I know, that game is using frontage system to limit how many units can actualy fight at battle, and how many are held in reserve, but i will love clear display of frontage for given provs, combined for actual frontage of given stacks (booth individual and for all combined), similiar that we allready have shown how many elemnts are sheltered XX actual vs ZZ maximum without penalties , when you look at entrench lvl of given stack.
while limits on others units, like naval/air units, tanks and others is less justified and should be raised/removed, and instead to be replaced by different mechanic to limit build ups.
Like normaly you can build only one/two air/tank units at time, and new only after these are completed (to represent development of indrusty at that time), and these limits can be only raised if you build new air/tank factories, same way as you can build new ammo factories. or keep limits low , which can be greatly expanded by building new factories, with unlimited after you have 3+ factories of desired type.

czert2
Brigadier General
Posts: 422
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 1:33 am

Re: Question about force pools

Tue Aug 08, 2017 1:50 pm

and i forgot, that having unlimited numbers can work only for certain units, like mentioned tanks, aircrafts, arty (hmm, when thinking about it, adding posiblity to build artillery factory to increase/lift limits or to even to add possibility to build medium/heavy arty to factions which cant build them from start is good too).
But totaly lifting limits on infantry units, cant work at all, since these units - militia, reserve divs and others existed for good reson, especialy reserve divisions, since you know you cant have lage scale war, and have armies consiting of 20 - 30 years old boys, you have final amount of these.
These reserve/militia units vere simply made by "old fathers" which were called to war, but not seemed ideal material for mounting offensives, so they were put on garrison/defensive duties.

and for your AAA example, yes good example how game should represent changing situation on warground, but since in ageaod games you allways did have (and most likely allways will) allready complete divisions with fixed brigades/regiments, so if you want this type of customization, look for another games, like HoI 3.

To put it on simple way, i agree with you that game should have soft limits on material related units (like arty, tanks, airplanes, navy) which can be easily increased by building related factory type, while having hard limits on manpower/engine limits related is justified . like mentioned normal/reserve divs (manpower demography) or engine/abiities limits (no penalty for mountain troops fighting on open terrain).

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