hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Naval game errors?

Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:18 pm

If there is anyone who has any interest in all things naval,then the game has a great many errors!

Here is HMS Caledonia in January 1805,what is strange about that I here you say,well I will tell you,she was not commissioned until September 1808,and yet here she is in the game, more than 3 years before she should be,her keel was only laid in January 1805.Also the game has her as 110 gun ship,when in fact she was one of the first built,that had 120 guns as standard design.[ATTACH]36018[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Caledonia.jpg

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:53 pm

hellfirejet wrote:If there is anyone who has any interest in all things naval,then the game has a great many errors!

Here is HMS Caledonia in January 1805,what is strange about that I here you say,well I will tell you,she was not commissioned until September 1808,and yet here she is in the game, more than 3 years before she should be,her keel was only laid in January 1805.Also the game has her as 110 gun ship,when in fact she was one of the first built,that had 120 guns as standard design.[ATTACH]36018[/ATTACH]



Another strange naval error is for HMS Queen Charlotte?

The original Queen Charlotte was destroyed by fire in 1800 and her replacement was not commissioned until 1810 and yet here she is in January 1805? I'm highlighting these errors to improve the game as per history.

[ATTACH]36019[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Queen Charlotte.jpg

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:08 pm

This game is a must have if you have an interest in Napoleonic Era. I'm very impressed with the game map and all the other graphics.

HMS Renown in this screenshot,is listed as a 98 Gun Ship of the Line (2nd Rate) she is in fact a 74 gun (3rd Rate).

History

Royal Navy

Name: HMS Renown

Ordered: 10 June 1795
Builder: Dudman, Deptford Wharf
Laid down: November 1796
Launched: 2 May 1798
Renamed: HMS Royal Oak, 1814

Honours and awards: Naval General Service Medal with clasp "Egypt"

Fate: Broken up, May 1835

Notes: Harbour service from 1814

General characteristics

Class & type: America-class ship of the line
74 Gun (3rd Rate)

Tons burthen: 1899 (bm)
Length: 182 ft (55 m) (gundeck)
Beam: 48 ft 7 1⁄2 in (14.8 m)
Depth of hold: 21 ft 7 in (6.58 m)
Sail plan: Full-rigged ship

Armament:
Gundeck: 28 × 32-pounder guns
Upper gundeck: 30 × 18-pounder guns
QD: 12 × 9-pounder guns
Fc: 4 × 9-pounder guns


[ATTACH]36020[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Renown.jpg

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13440
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:19 pm

Feel free to supply a complete and accurate OOB for all navies :cool:
Image

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:53 pm

PhilThib wrote:Feel free to supply a complete and accurate OOB for all navies :cool:


Hi I really love the game and I'm sure it is only going to improve in the future. I have already started to work my way through the Naval OOB, British first since it is the largest navy. I have books a plenty that contain all the data info for the major navies during the Napoleonic wars.

lycortas2
Captain
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:08 pm

hellfirejet, can you confirm that the ottomans should have 27 ships of the line in 1805? That is my count between 56 guns and 100 guns. I think the scenario is a bit low.
thanks,
Mike

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:19 pm

It is hard to estimate Ottoman naval forces for this time period,as there is a shortage of available factual info,what I do know is that Turkey had in the late 1790s 27 Ships of the line and 20 Frigates. I'm actively trying to track down info for the time period of the game 1805-1815 for Turkey.

What I do have is every ship in the Navies of France,Britain,Spain and Russia with service history for all ship types,that were used by these navies.

I'm busy putting together all info,that the game needs,to have all historical factual info used in game.

Argaur
Civilian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:23 am

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:48 pm

Spanish ships San Carlos, Reina Luisa in Cartagena, and Santa Ana in cadiz should be 112 guns, they were fantastic ships as Principe de Asturias.

Argaur
Civilian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:23 am

Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:48 pm

And Rayo in cadiz 100 guns

Argaur
Civilian
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:23 am

Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:00 pm

Ships in Cartagena should be:

"Reina Luisa" 112
"San Carlos" 112
"San Francisco de Paula" 74
"San Joaquín" 74
"San Ramón" 64
"Asia" 74

And the commander D. José Justo Salcedo not Cordova

lycortas2
Captain
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:28 pm

If anyone can provide complete list I am fixing the ships as we speak. It would be appreciated if you send all you have to me.
Part of the problem i am seeing with the British is I think they had 100-102 SOL in commission in 1805 but there are only 97 in game at start so ships like the Caledonia were added to the ship list to fill it out.

lycortas2
Captain
Posts: 198
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 1:57 am

Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:14 pm

Okay after a quick count I show 122 British SOL more or less in duty in 1805 plus around 10 or 11 still serving 50 gun SOLs.
Some of these may have just been harbor ships, hard to tell sometimes.

I need to look at it from the other direction; does anyone have a list of all SOLs under command of the various admirals at sea in 1805?

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13440
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:19 am

Argaur wrote:Ships in Cartagena should be:

"Reina Luisa" 112
"San Carlos" 112
"San Francisco de Paula" 74
"San Joaquín" 74
"San Ramón" 64
"Asia" 74

And the commander D. José Justo Salcedo not Cordova


Can you list the whole Spanish navy likewise?
Image

veji1
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:27 pm

Thu Jan 07, 2016 1:57 pm

lycortas2 wrote:If anyone can provide complete list I am fixing the ships as we speak. It would be appreciated if you send all you have to me.
Part of the problem i am seeing with the British is I think they had 100-102 SOL in commission in 1805 but there are only 97 in game at start so ships like the Caledonia were added to the ship list to fill it out.


For the french I posted quite a complete website : this one gives you all the SOL including those built during the period so we can also have extra names for builds rather than the pretty boring and random "74 guns ship of the line" name which takes some flavour away for me.

Now there is also the issue of the fregates. I personnally think frigates are a bit too expensive in the game, in terms of WS notably : they were a lot cheaper to build not only because they required less material (wood, cannons) but also because the 2 decker architecture made them a lot more stable and was less complicated. Right now they cost 290 WS whereas a first line squadron costs 560 if I remember correctly.

Lots and lots of fregates were built in the era because they were the all around workhorse for many tasks : surveillance, convoy raiding, blockading, etc. To me building costs are a bit too closely linked to number of cannons. Not a big deal per se.

Wild Boar
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Posts: 58
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2015 8:00 pm

Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:42 pm


hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Fri Aug 12, 2016 2:33 pm

I have just returned to the game,and I'm looking to do a lot more modding of the Naval datafiles.

While checking the GameData,Models file, I noticed that the info for the ship types, is not consistent? The files for all the CMN (Common ) ship types contain a lot more detail than, the files for the ship types by Country! IE: Great Britain,France,Russia and Spain etc. Why is this, and will it make the game unstable, if I add the extra info contained in the Common ship types, into the individual Country ship types, will the game recognise these changes?


In the models file in the game database, can someone please tell me what each of the following attributes relate to in game terms?



UID = 172
NationTag = FRA
Name = 118 guns Ship of the Line
Alias = mdl_FRA_118SOL
TemplateUID = $mdl_CMN_110SOL
ShortName = Ship o' Line 118
Color = $colFRANavy
SoundRangedRare = $sndNavalLight
SoundRangedCmn = $sndNavalFire3
SoundCloseRare = $sndNavalFire6
SoundCloseCmn = $sndNavalHeavy
SoundDamaged = $sndNavalDamaged1
SoundDestroyed = $sndNavalDamaged2
Portrait = mdl_CMN_War100.png
OffFire = 20
DefFire = 20
Initiative = 7
Range = 3
ROF = 2
Penetration = 4
Protection = 2
TQ = 6
Assault = 18
Hits = 30
RplUsage = 3
MenPerHit = 40
HorsesPerHit = 0
GunsPerHit = 4
HitsPerShip = 27
Cohesion = 75
DmgDone = 3
CohDone = 40
AsltCohDone = 50
TargetType = $Naval
Move Type = $OceanMv
Move Ratio = 100
CohMove = 60
AtrMove = 40
BaseCohLoss = 11
BaseAttrition = 11
DetectLand = 1
DetectSea = 2
Blockade = 3
HideValue = 2
Weight = -1
ProgRate = 10
Police = 0
Patrol = 1
Evasion = 2
TechUpg = -1
TrainUpg = -1
CapturePerc = 10
IsSupport = 0
SupplyUsage = 3
SupplyStore = 30
AmmoUsage = 1
AmmoStore = 30
ShareSupply = 0
SupHitPen = 0
SupMovePen = 25
SupCbtPen = 75
Ability0 = $abiTransport1
VPValue = 30
POLValue = 0
Money = 450
Conscript = 225
WarSupply = 300
Goods = 0
Days = 420
UpkeepCoeff = 50
Morale = 0
CustomNames = Océan|Majestueux|Impérial|Austerlitz|Wagram|Montebello|Héros|Souverain|Louis XIV|Formidable|Inflexible|Ville de Vienne|Tonnant|

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:25 am

I have tried to mod the game, but so far all attempts, result in the game crashing, so I returned the game to its official release config. I'm taking another long break from the game, so for now the game is shelved.

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 24759
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:13 pm

There are less data in the national models because they are derived from the CMN model, see:

TemplateUID = $mdl_CMN_110SOL

for example
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:59 pm

I have been trying to figure out how to mod the scenario file? Below is the Santa Ana squadron taken from the January 1805 scenario. Can someone please tell me what all the numbers mean,why are these games made so hard to understand,modding wise I find them extremely frustrating.

S. Anna Sq.
NULL
NULL
S. Anna Sq.
NULL
NULL
Cmd. J. Cardoque
NULL
NULL
NULL
#CbtPower#89#CbtPower#
NULL
{SubUnit}
1008316
441
27
10
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Santa Anna
{/SubUnit}
{SubUnit}
1008317
442
20
10
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Argonauta
{/SubUnit}
{SubUnit}
1008318
443
18
10
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Firme
{/SubUnit}
{/Unit}
{Unit}
1008323
443
0
212
1
1008305
1000006
0
1
0
-1
0
0
-1
0
-1
-1
0
0
-1
0
0

User avatar
Nikel
Posts: 2085
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:38 pm
Location: Expaña

Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:21 pm

Ask Ageod for WON database.


You can check other games databases, for example CW2, here so you have an idea:

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?5358-Official-Files-for-modding

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:35 am

Hi thanks for the info,but I knew about them already, the problem I'm having is,these games have been around for many years, and still there are no idiot guides to modding these files?

What I do know for example is the number 441 is the Units Model ID. It looks like I will have to resort,to the tried and tested method off,changing 1 data entry at a time, and load the game to see what it does! I suppose just like many other games I have modded,I will have to find out the hard way,which is both frustrating and extremely time consuming. Unlike the great majority of gamers,I have no interest in the land campaign in these games, but the 1792-1815 era naval wise is my domain. The games naval database,is full of errors,that is like waving a red flag to a bull,to people who have an interest in all things Naval. Rest assured I will fix these issues.

NB: Can someone also explain to me why,in the 1805 Campaign January? Nelson has a massive fleet blockading Cadiz, when he should be in the Med blockading Toulon?

Santa Anna
{/SubUnit}
{SubUnit}
1008317
441 = Model number
27 = Ships power ie guns carried ( 4x 27 = 108 guns)
10
0
20
20
0
0
85 = Cohesion
0
0
0
0
0
1

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13440
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:22 pm

hellfirejet wrote:NB: Can someone also explain to me why,in the 1805 Campaign January? Nelson has a massive fleet blockading Cadiz, when he should be in the Med blockading Toulon?


Indeed, some error there, as Nelson is off Toulon (and is moved away at some time in the first ten days by heavy winds, when Villeneuve uses up the opportunity to leave Toulon on the 11th). Will fix that in next patch.
Image

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Thu Aug 25, 2016 6:25 pm

Cheers!

Might I suggest you split Nelsons massive fleet in two. Leave Admiral Collingwood in charge of 1 fleet blockading Cadiz, and have Admiral Nelson Blockading Toulon with the other fleet.


On a positive note, I'm slowly making great progress,fixing the many errors in the January 1805 Scenario Naval wise. In Admiral Jervis Atlantic/Channel fleet blockading Brest, I have replaced the 1st rate HMS Queen Charlotte, with the 110 gun HMS Ville de Paris. Because Queen Charlotte was destroyed by accident in 1800 and she should not be in the game, where as Ville de Paris should be. I have also corrected all the other ship errors contained within the fleet blockading Brest!

Plus Admiral Calders fleet has had all its errors corrected as well, the biggest change here,was replacing HMS Caledonia which was not commissioned until 1810,with HMS San Josef the Spanish 1st rate famously captured by Nelson,at the battle of Cape St Vincent.

User avatar
PhilThib
Posts: 13440
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Meylan (France)

Fri Aug 26, 2016 7:49 am

Will do likewise
Image

hellfirejet
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Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:28 pm

After another long break I'm back to see if I can fix all the Naval errors in the games database, I have to say its like walking through a minefield. The grand campaign 1805 is a total mess,there are ships sailing about in 1805 that belong in the Pirates of the Caribbean! Because some of them are ghost ships,which were already SUNK or broken up long before 1805? Especially some Spanish ships of the line. Who ever did the research on the Spanish navy should be made to walk the plank. :mdr:



If anyone is thinking about modding the game,I hope you have plenty of spare time on your hands because believe me you will need it.The files listed below,are the minimum required in order to change the Naval game to what you want it to be.


Files required to mod naval info.

Models Data File.

Units Data File.

Campaign1805_January_NAVAL_OBB.inc

1805 January Grand Campaign.scn

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:21 pm

The more I try to mod these games,the more I want to pull my hair out! Unless you know what you are doing they are a nightmare to mod!

Years ago there was talk of a Modder's handbook being written up that would explain in detail how to mod the data files,but alas that has never appeared.


The frustrating thing is I have knowledge a plenty about all things Naval for the Napoleonic era,but do you think I can get that info loaded into the game, and get the damn thing to do what I want,no is the answer, the frustration is making me really really angry,I love these games, and I can make them far better I know I can,but the simple fact of the matter is I don't have enough info available at hand,on how I can get what I know added to the game.

User avatar
Bohémond
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:27 pm

What is your goal and what data are you trying in mod in the game ?

I can maybe provide some inputs.

Regards

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:00 pm

My goal is to correct all the Naval database errors, such as 3rd 74s showing up as 1st rates, for example. Adding all names of ships still active in 1805 French,British,Spanish,Russian etc, I can manage to mod the MODEL & UNIT files easy enough,but my biggest problem is creating new Squadrons,or altering existing Squadrons and getting these to show up in the scenario.Any help will be very much appreciated.


What I need to know most of all, is what all the numbers and zero's mean in the game?

For example:


Escadre de Toulon
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
#Kind#2#Kind#
Escadre de Toulon|Pierre de Villeneuve|420|12|
NULL
{Unit}
1007040
1922
0
420
1
1007039
1000001
0
1
0
-1
0
0
-1
0
-1
-1
0
0
-1
0
0
Pierre de Villeneuve
NULL
NULL
Pierre de Villeneuve
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
#CbtPower#0#CbtPower#
NULL
{SubUnit}
1007041
3552
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
80
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Pierre de Villeneuve
{/SubUnit}
{/Unit}
{Unit}
1007060
1915
0
420
1
1007039
1000001
0
1
0
-1
0
0
-1
0
-1
-1
0
0
-1
0
0
Charles de Magon de Médine
NULL
NULL
Charles de Magon de Médine
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
#CbtPower#0#CbtPower#
NULL
{SubUnit}
1007061
3545
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
80
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Charles de Magon de Médine
{/SubUnit}
{/Unit}
{Unit}
1007042
1917
0
420
1
1007039
1000001
0
1
0
-1
0
0
-1
0
-1
-1
0
0
-1
0
0
Edouard Burgues de Missiessy
NULL
NULL
Edouard Burgues de Missiessy
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
NULL
#CbtPower#0#CbtPower#
NULL
{SubUnit}
1007043
3547
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
80
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Edouard Burgues de Missiessy
{/SubUnit}
{/Unit}
{Unit}
1007056
74
0
420
1
1007039
1000001
0
1
0
-1
0
0
-1
0
-1
-1
0
0
-1
0
0
Indomptable Sq.
NULL
NULL
Indomptable Sq.
NULL
NULL
Cmd. J-M. Letellier
NULL
NULL
NULL
#CbtPower#114#CbtPower#
NULL
{SubUnit}
1007057
174
21
0
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Indomptable
{/SubUnit}
{SubUnit}
1007058
175
19
0
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Pluton
{/SubUnit}
{SubUnit}
1007059
175
19
0
0
20
20
0
0
75
0
0
0
0
0
1
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
0
Sceptre
{/SubUnit}

User avatar
Bohémond
Posts: 2379
Joined: Wed May 14, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Tue Jun 27, 2017 2:37 pm

You do not have to work on .scn file.
There not made to be ''workable''.
You have to mod Campaign1805_January_NAVAL_OBB.inc.
Once done, Go to Wars of Napoleon\NGC\Scripts.
Delete the Script.ini
Rename ScriptGC1805January.ini into Script.ini.
Then regenerate the .scn. Please refer to viewtopic.php?f=132&t=9756..Only perform Step14 to step 16.

Let us know if it works.

Regards

hellfirejet
Corporal
Posts: 49
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:07 pm

Re: Naval game errors?

Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:28 pm

Thank you for info I will check it out :)

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