lecrop
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WoN current state

Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:29 pm

It is obvious that it is advisable not to play the great campaign in the current state of the game.

This is a question for those responsible for its development and updating.

Is WoN abandoned?

Thanks in advance.

elxaime
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:00 am

In my opinion, WoN can be revived if they remodel the campaign scenario for two players, along the lines of WoS. This can be done as a DLC, so that people who want the larger multiplayer experience can still have that.

However AGEOD has said in the past a two-player version it would be a lot of work and take time away from new projects. So something like this would probably wait for a WoN 2, if there ever was one.

spartan005
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:04 am

I also think that this game was unjustly abandoned by ageod ..
I have a lot of ageod games but I feel that the license (but it's my simple opinion) dies ..
2 games (which I think the wars are less interesting) since WON so 2016 !!
I have the feeling that before, there were better games, with better choice of period (again, it's my simple opinion) and more frequently.
CW2, alea jacta est, to end all wars :coeurs:

honestly I understand that at the start the game is bugged because they have the delay (it's common in the video game)
but they are supposed to respect the person who bought the game... and try to make a version trustworthy !

otherwise they have to start in the early access market....

(sorry for the fault, i'm french)

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Colonel Marbot
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Re: WoN current state

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:15 am

I am sorry but I beg to differ in terms of your evaluation of this game. Having played two complete campaigns games and (documenting them earlier in this forum), I know of no finer game on the period. This game truly requires players to utilize Napoleonic Grand Tactics, and to understand the personalities and characteristics of those personalities. Perhaps I am not a common player, as I have in my library over 200 books on the Napoleonic Wars and consider myself to have a fairly complete understanding of the period.

But I do understand that this game is not a "Beers and Pretzel" experience. It takes more than two turns and two squares of travel to conquer Moscow. It takes time to play, even after you learned how the Grand Campaign works.

I am considering beginning a third campaign. And if I do, this is what I will look forward to in my first few terms:

- Setting a historical variant which gives me a understanding of America's potential effect in the war should it choose a side.
- Reorganize and modernize the Army of Italy under Massena, concentrating and optimizing its order of battle on Napoleonic principals and using the personalities and abilities of its commanders to best effect.
- Detach cavalry units to form a screen and blind Mack's Austrian Army at Ulm.
- Fully surround Mack's austrian army in order to fully eliminate it, utilizing the Grand Armee Advance Corps to best effect with force Marches.
- And after defeating Mack, move quickly, again with cavalry to both screen and grab military control ahead of the infantry to hasten my approach to Austria before Russians can arrive in force.
- Begin to upgrade Calvary officer talent.
- Begin to fill out missing strength in the Grand Armee, such as a 3rd Division for the 1st Corp.
- Look for an opportunity to run the English Naval blockade and consolidate French/Spanish naval strength.
- Begin a supply and depot system which will support the Grand Armee's March into Austria.
- Work Diplomatically to improve relations with Persia and the Ottomans, and strengthen relations with the Spanish.

All this in the first couple of turns. Again, if you know of a better and more complete game on the Napoleonic Wars, please share!

spartan005
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Re: WoN current state

Sat Jun 09, 2018 2:48 am

sorry if I misspoke.
I do not speak about the real quality of the game ageod games are very complete.
BUT won is not stable.. make a campaign when the game crash every 2 turns, reload the game, again and again... or lose the savegame because you have a crash and have no way to recover...
it is not acceptable after two and a half years.... sorry...

And the management of the IA for the diplomacy... seriously ??

"Beers and Pretzel".. please don't be so arrogant.. i never tell that..

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Colonel Marbot
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Re: WoN current state

Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:31 pm

If you are crashing that regularly, then I well understand your frustration. My original campaign was on a Windows 8 platform and my second on a newer system running windows 10, which had few problems. So... I can only conclude that the many of the crash issues are in terms of the system environment with some players having consistent problems and others having virtually none.

There have been posts about how to relieve issues with crashing which are more thorough than mine. But if I can suggest:

Before loading the game, go into task manager and shut down as many of your overhead applications as well as processes as you can, Many systems have utilities running that reduce your system resources and click on at random times creating problems.

Disconnect from the internet and shut down your virus checker, as this can click on and create problems.

Do use the WON system options to keep backups for at least 6 previous turns, for what will hopefully be far fewer crashes.

I had a crash occurring very late in the game 400 turn+ as I was marching a corp south down the coast of England... when I changed my strategy and marched this corp west, the problem disappeared. Why... no clue, but it let me complete the game.

Good luck....

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Citizen X
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Re: WoN current state

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:19 am

I take it you already tried these advices?

viewtopic.php?f=374&t=43539

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Captain_Orso
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Re: WoN current state

Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:14 pm

From personal experience gained while testing some aspects of the game, if you run "too many" turns, one after the other, without shutting down the game, you can experience crashes caused by what I think is data corruption.

I suggest, after each execution of a turn, quit the game, start the game again and reload the scenario.

You can actually run 2 - 3 turns without issue, from my experience, but getting into a routine of stopping and starting the game at regular intervals is important, and in the heat of the battle you will likely forget if your plan is to restart only ever 2 or three turns.

If you don't have an SSD it will of course be time consuming--even with SSD it takes a minute or so to reload the game--, but it will save you much more in argrivation in the long run.

lecrop
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Re: WoN current state

Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:07 pm

lecrop wrote:This is a question for those responsible for its development and updating.


Cristal clear

It's a shame :non:

elxaime
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Re: WoN current state

Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:From personal experience gained while testing some aspects of the game, if you run "too many" turns, one after the other, without shutting down the game, you can experience crashes caused by what I think is data corruption.

I suggest, after each execution of a turn, quit the game, start the game again and reload the scenario.

You can actually run 2 - 3 turns without issue, from my experience, but getting into a routine of stopping and starting the game at regular intervals is important, and in the heat of the battle you will likely forget if your plan is to restart only ever 2 or three turns.

If you don't have an SSD it will of course be time consuming--even with SSD it takes a minute or so to reload the game--, but it will save you much more in argrivation in the long run.


I suspect some of the performance issues would ease if WON was reworked as a two player campaign. I bet a lot of performance issues relate to all the tiny minor countries running around under AI, conducting diplomacy, etc. In reality, makes more sense game wise to concentrate on the major powers and alliances and leave the small stuff to scripting and decision trees.

veji1
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:13 am

Small countrie should have made passive or "card" driven. The fact that the CP has to run all elements for them (diplo, production, troops movements, etc..) made the game unnecessarily heavy and messy.

veji1
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:42 am

Colonel Marbot wrote:I am sorry but I beg to differ in terms of your evaluation of this game. Having played two complete campaigns games and (documenting them earlier in this forum), I know of no finer game on the period. This game truly requires players to utilize Napoleonic Grand Tactics, and to understand the personalities and characteristics of those personalities. Perhaps I am not a common player, as I have in my library over 200 books on the Napoleonic Wars and consider myself to have a fairly complete understanding of the period.

But I do understand that this game is not a "Beers and Pretzel" experience. It takes more than two turns and two squares of travel to conquer Moscow. It takes time to play, even after you learned how the Grand Campaign works.

I am considering beginning a third campaign. And if I do, this is what I will look forward to in my first few terms:

- Setting a historical variant which gives me a understanding of America's potential effect in the war should it choose a side.
- Reorganize and modernize the Army of Italy under Massena, concentrating and optimizing its order of battle on Napoleonic principals and using the personalities and abilities of its commanders to best effect.
- Detach cavalry units to form a screen and blind Mack's Austrian Army at Ulm.
- Fully surround Mack's austrian army in order to fully eliminate it, utilizing the Grand Armee Advance Corps to best effect with force Marches.
- And after defeating Mack, move quickly, again with cavalry to both screen and grab military control ahead of the infantry to hasten my approach to Austria before Russians can arrive in force.
- Begin to upgrade Calvary officer talent.
- Begin to fill out missing strength in the Grand Armee, such as a 3rd Division for the 1st Corp.
- Look for an opportunity to run the English Naval blockade and consolidate French/Spanish naval strength.
- Begin a supply and depot system which will support the Grand Armee's March into Austria.
- Work Diplomatically to improve relations with Persia and the Ottomans, and strengthen relations with the Spanish.

All this in the first couple of turns. Again, if you know of a better and more complete game on the Napoleonic Wars, please share!


Mate, you were a beta tester and instead of helping make a game that delivers on its premise you played a fantasy game of which you posted a map with a permanent war where the Grande Armée occupies the whole of the map "Wehrmacht style in a total war". I remember really well your post and the attached map :
http://www.ageod-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=368&t=41687&p=362775#p362775

The issue with the game is that it is does not allow any form of play along the lines of what happened at the time. If you play France, your ennemies are irretrievably broken once you defeat them once : Austria or Prussia can not EVER rebuild themselves in a credible way after Pressburg or Tilsit for example. Add to that the mess of all the small AI countries slowing down and overcomplicating the game (diplomacy, production, etc) and you have a game that looks fantastic, has all the data or chrome once can desire (all the units, officers, etc..) but that just does not work in anyway shape or form.

I played a good 500 turns in the six months after it came out, and really I gave it my darndest. It's just broken. Ageod's system worked with 2 sides a game (AACW, etc), here it just completely cracked under the weight of the game and some features are just plain not working.

The diplomatic engine for eample is just Kaput, the scripted peace events have to be used as crutches because it doesn't work. And this is a damning indictement because Philippe worked on the transposition of his game Europa Universalis for Paradox and it had close to 20 years ago, a simpler and better diplomatic engine !

The fact that a guy like Vicberg who was initially in love with the game and invested hundreds of hours to try and circumvent its flaws through his mod just abandonned the task and seemingly the game is telling.

This game is immensely frustrating, you open it and fall in love, it looks amazing and gives you such much hope, but it just doesn't work except and only except if your thing is to play a demolition game walking over a deadbeat AI, basically the thread I quoted, which dates from december 2015 is still relevant today sadly.... But all the data is there to maybe one day get a great game.

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Captain_Orso
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:15 am

I'm far from a Napoleonic era expert--I'll leave the historical facts and details to Colonel Marbot & Co.--, but I think giving the player too much control over minor nations would lead directly to their being abused.

Comparing with CW2, WON comes out of the gates with a huge map practically fully populated with units, which is not to say that their numbers do not grow. On the contrary, they grow greatly. The map is huge and the number of units is as well, which simply requires a massive amount of computing power and time.

How much time Athena requires to make diplomacy calculations, I cannot really say. I think one would have to be able to turn AI diplomacy completely off to make a comparison.

Maybe diplomacy--as far as the AI is concerned--could be streamlined. When looking at, for example Azerbaijan, I don't know why they should be concerned at all about, lets say, Denmark, unless it were being dragged into a situation by, for example Russia. But even if, what effect would it have on the game, whether Azerbaijan declared war on Denmark or not. If Azerbaijan leased troops to Russia, Russian can do with them what they wish, regardless of Azerbaijan's diplomatic relationship with Denmark. And why should Azerbaijan have any diplomatic relationship with Denmark at all in the first place? I rather doubt they had historically exchanged ambassadors, but again I'll leave that assessment Colonel Marbot & Co., although I do have my doubts. Otherwise... Denmark-Schmenmark. So, if the game considered whether one nation had any diplomatic relationship with another nation first, it could simply skip any calculations by checking off 'no-diplo-relationship', and moving on to the next.

Personally, I think it was a mistake for AGE to try to make the game accessible to too broad of an audience. I would expect about the same results if Paradox Interactive tried to make Hearts of Iron 3 into a tablet game. Some things simply don't work, and will never find an audience for a game of that size who just want to play Candy-Crush-like Drag-n-Drop game.

Just IMHO.

Taillebois
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:28 am

It's a Spruce Goose. Like PON, a game that's just too big.

veji1
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:52 am

Taillebois wrote:It's a Spruce Goose. Like PON, a game that's just too big.


yeah... The engine just cannot carry that many variables and moving parts. For it to work the engine should have been focused on the wargame and all the rest of the game should have been streamlined and card driven. Too bad really because the amount of work is staggering and the chrome (OOBs, graphics, etc..) is just splendid.

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Durk
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Re: WoN current state

Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:08 am

You must know, I am involved in a half dozen seven player games of WON. They are all going very well. We have met a few technical challenge which are easily solve with a tech officer who knows even a minimal amount about modding. Love the game, its complexity and the diplomatic interface.
Really, this is a game for players who like human and game challenges. Not quite as polished as a few of the two player games, but really a gem of a game.

veji1
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Re: WoN current state

Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:07 pm

Durk wrote:You must know, I am involved in a half dozen seven player games of WON. They are all going very well. We have met a few technical challenge which are easily solve with a tech officer who knows even a minimal amount about modding. Love the game, its complexity and the diplomatic interface.
Really, this is a game for players who like human and game challenges. Not quite as polished as a few of the two player games, but really a gem of a game.


As you said, if you play MP and between players are willing to make arrangements for what doesn't really work, it's probably great. But that does work when one plays MP which allows to basically get rid of all the AI driven aspect of the game !!! If no or hardy any AI involved in military, diplomacy, etc.. it's probably great fun. But it's not a functionning Single player game. This is just the simple reality.

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BigDuke66
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Re: WoN current state

Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:30 pm

In that case it would be great if some experienced multiplayer could write down a guide for doing such a multiplayer game so newbees can doge all the problems that could show up.
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bobbylev1
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Re: WoN current state

Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:23 am

I have just started a campaign playing each country solo, do all the events work correctly if you are in control of each nation?

Also will there be a future patch for the game, it just seems like this game has been dropped like a hot potato!

Thanks!

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Captain_Orso
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Re: WoN current state

Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:06 pm

The game has no concept of you hot-seating. All it sees is that it has orders for all the major nations and creates orders for the minor nations and other entities.

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Durk
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Re: WoN current state

Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:46 pm

bobbylev1 wrote:I have just started a campaign playing each country solo, do all the events work correctly if you are in control of each nation?

Also will there be a future patch for the game, it just seems like this game has been dropped like a hot potato!

Thanks!


This is the way to play solo, play all nations. Most of the bugs have been cleaned. In my view the game has fallen into disfavor with some players as it does not play as well if only one faction/nation is active.

BigDuke66 - If you provide some idea of what you mean by a multiplayer guideline, I would do so. But if you know how to play as any nation, you have what you need to know. Just make each countries move, then execute the game.

This is a huge, very well designed and playable game. The 'delight' of getting stabbed in the back can even, of course, be done if one person is playing all faction. For older gamers, like I am, I played all side of so many board games when I had no opponent that playing all factions seems natural to me.

bobbylev1
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:02 am

Yes I play solo on most AGEOD games, mainly though it has been on Pride of Nations, which is perfect for solo play and is my favourite game ever. I can never remember my moves anyway so it is "almost" like playing against an opponent at times!

I will now put more time in with WON and see if I cannot beat myself! :)

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BigDuke66
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:12 pm

@Durk
You mentioned some yourself:
Durk wrote:We have met a few technical challenge which are easily solve with a tech officer who knows even a minimal amount about modding.


And veji1 said:
veji1 wrote:As you said, if you play MP and between players are willing to make arrangements for what doesn't really work, it's probably great.


So what is this modding you mentioned and the arrangements that players should make to doge problems?
It just sounds like some things have to be fixed and some things agreed on before a multiplayer battle should start or one would have problems along the road.
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Durk
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jun 29, 2018 3:20 am

BigDuke66 - maybe the easiest thing is for you to drop a note either in the forum or in PM. So many as very situation and not easily repeatable.

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Drakken
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:28 am

So I take that for those who mainly want to play single-player and are not interested in soloing all 7 countries, this game is a no-go?

Unless there enough players for a MP and they are willing to take in a newb... I am thinking of purchasing on Steam.

bobbylev1
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jul 05, 2018 10:29 am

I would not want to invest my time in the game if I was only playing against the AI. However do not discount playing solo, it works really well in the game, but I do appreciate it is not for everyone!

Maybe a word from the developers on their future plans (if there are any) for this game might help you decide???

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Drakken
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:20 pm

Always felt that soloing was not really playing. There's always the subconscious impulse to favour one side and no mystery exists of the other player's intentions.

I might purchase for multiplayer if there are enough players.

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Drakken
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jul 06, 2018 12:47 am

Oh well, ended up purchasing anyway. :bonk:

Also joined TWC to play multiplayer.

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Durk
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Re: WoN current state

Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:28 am

Oh excellent. Nice club to fine multiplayers.

csiemers
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Re: WoN current state

Thu Jul 19, 2018 12:57 am

I've played over 300 hours of WoN against the AI and after 2 full campaigns I gave up. There are so many problems with the game I finally uninstalled it as the devs are obviously not doing any improvements to the games which was a shame as I really was looking forward to a good Napoleon era game and this was a major disappointment. I'm still looking for a good Napoleon era game to play against an AI.

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