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Khanti
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Question: dispirited leader

Mon May 22, 2017 12:49 pm

Admiral Villeneuve has ability of dispirited leader (sometimes displayed as level:1).
So the question is: can this ability be leveled?
If he increase his experience, will he be dispirited leader level:2 or spirited level:1 ? :)
/charismatic level:1/

I know it's difficult to use such a leader, but out of curiosity, I'd like to know.
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Captain_Orso
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Re: Question: dispirited leader

Mon May 22, 2017 3:26 pm

Generally, with the increase of a leader's experience, his offensive and defensive values, and the affects of his abilities will increase as well. For example, once a leader has reached Experience Level 1 (EL1) he then has a star on his characteristics card in the element detail window(1). At 1 EL a leaders defensive values gains +1. At 2 EL his offensive value gains +1. At EL 3 he gains another +1 to his defensive value, etc.

On the first tab of the element detail window, you will also find the ability icons of an element, if the element has any. Each ability icon has a tool-tip explaining their characteristics, including at which EL their characteristics will increase.

Characteristics will not improve with every EL gained. Many defensive abilities will improve only on odd numbered EL's (eg 1, 3, 5...), while many offensive abilities will improve only on even EL's (eg 2, 4, 6, etc).

Some abilities do not change at all. Dispirited Leader may just be one of them. Check the ability tool-tip, and don't forget to report your findings here ;)


(1) Select a stack with a leader on the map
- click on the leader's unit in the Stack Panel at the bottom of the map to open the Unit Panel to the right of the Stack Panel
- click on the leader's NATO symbol to open his characteristics in the element detail window on the right side of the map
- - each star you find here is 1 EL. Tool-tip's of the star(s), even if gray, show further information on XP's (eXperience Points) and EL.

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Khanti
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Re: Question: dispirited leader

Tue May 23, 2017 8:31 am

Hm, ... my stars are silent about abilities.
They only sing about experience.

Tool-tip's of the star(s), even if gray, show information on XP's ..... and nothing more.
No luck then.
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Captain_Orso
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Re: Question: dispirited leader

Tue May 23, 2017 8:40 am

Sorry if I wasn't clear. Check the tool-tip of the ability icon(s).

The EL stars tool-tip tells you about eXperience Points and EL's only, but the element's EL level may affect the abilities of the element.

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Khanti
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Re: Question: dispirited leader

Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:17 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:(...)
Some abilities do not change at all. Dispirited Leader may just be one of them. Check the ability tool-tip, and don't forget to report your findings here ;)
(...)


The findings:
- in Ageod games special abilities of leaders do not change when leaders become more experienced
- leaders can be promoted but only to "new model" designed by scenario creators
- Pierre de Villeneuve has 3 files in Models folder (UID = 3552, UID = 3553, UID = 3554)
- in all files he has Ability0 = $abiDispirited_Leader
- files dictates if he can be promoted and when he will be removed from scenario
- young de Villeneuve is promotable and can be trained up to de Villeneuve2
and has ratings are Strategic = 4, Offensive = 3, Defensive = 3 (1792)
- middle de Villeneuve (de Villeneuve2) is promotable
and has ratings are Strategic = 2, Offensive = 3, Defensive = 3 (1800)
- old de Villeneuve (de Villeneuve3) is not promotable
and has ratings are Strategic = 1, Offensive = 2, Defensive = 2 (1804)

I hoped for something like in Hearts of Iron series, when leader fighting in the mountains can actually learn mountain fighter trait, but no luck in this engine. Maybe next time.

This answer is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to.
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Captain_Orso
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Re: Question: dispirited leader

Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:24 am

Khanti wrote:
Captain_Orso wrote:(...)
Some abilities do not change at all. Dispirited Leader may just be one of them. Check the ability tool-tip, and don't forget to report your findings here ;)
(...)


The findings:
- in Ageod games special abilities of leaders do not change when leaders become more experienced


Correct, WHICH Abilities a Lead has at a specific rank does not change through gaining Experience. The affects of some few of those Abilities can change through Experience. An example from CW2 (because I had it at hand), is found in the tool-tip of Grant's Strategist Ability:

    This leader provides +1 Command Points and an additional +1 per ability level to the stack under his command...

    underscoring is mine

Having 'quickly' reviewed my notes on Abilities, AL is dependent partially on the Ability's ProgRate parameter (if any is defined in the Ability). What I remember from Pocus is that Ability Level (AL) generally increase every other Experience Level (EL), but only on either Even or Odd EL's. Generally Odd for defensive Abilities and Even for Offensive. I can't find definitive examples of this, and don't have time at the moment. Some of Ability workings are simply hard-coded, so without extensive testing (extremely time consuming) it would be practically impossible to discover all details.

Khanti wrote:- leaders can be promoted but only to "new model" designed by scenario creators


Leaders are promoted to the model listed in their current model's 'TechUpg' parameter. There maybe some exceptions to this, but those would be very rare and only for very specific Leaders.

Khanti wrote:- Pierre de Villeneuve has 3 files in Models folder (UID = 3552, UID = 3553, UID = 3554)


Those are for his Ranks of ***, **, and * respectively.

Khanti wrote:- in all files he has Ability0 = $abiDispirited_Leader


Yes, but Abilities can change from Rank to Rank. It depends on the leader.

Khanti wrote:- files dictates if he can be promoted and when he will be removed from scenario


Units, which includes Leaders, can only be removed through scenario events, and will generally be dependent on historical events.

Khanti wrote:- young de Villeneuve is promotable and can be trained up to de Villeneuve2
and has ratings are Strategic = 4, Offensive = 3, Defensive = 3 (1792)
- middle de Villeneuve (de Villeneuve2) is promotable
and has ratings are Strategic = 2, Offensive = 3, Defensive = 3 (1800)
- old de Villeneuve (de Villeneuve3) is not promotable
and has ratings are Strategic = 1, Offensive = 2, Defensive = 2 (1804)


You appear to be referencing the 'DateIn' and 'DateOut' parameters. I am not aware whether these are actually used, but using Villeneuve as an example, all of his models have 'DateOut = 1820', and WON starts in 1805, so I assume Villeneuve could have any Rank for which he has models, depending on the decisions of the scenario author.

Khanti wrote:I hoped for something like in Hearts of Iron series, when leader fighting in the mountains can actually learn mountain fighter trait, but no luck in this engine. Maybe next time.


All that just to say you wish Leaders could train-up new Abilities?! :blink:

Khanti wrote:This answer is never late, nor is it early, it arrives precisely when it means to.


What answer to what question :confused:

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