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LiarFox
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What if we were making a customized Grand Campaign?

Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:14 am

While working on our upcoming Napoleonic game here at Ageod, we started thinking about giving you the possibility to either follow the historical course of events or to choose to take events down a different path. Indeed, even hardcore history buffs may like to introduce what-if elements into their own campaigns in order to rewrite history and speculate on what could have been done to allow the Corsican Ogre to swallow Europe … or to be defeated many years before Waterloo!

As a result we would like to introduce a brand new “what-if” feature that you’ll be able to use (or not) to spice up your campaigns and add extra replay value to the game! Activating such option would introduce fictional settings into the Grand Campaign and modify the military assets and overall balance of the game.

As an example, please have a look to the screenshot below (not representative of the graphic quality of the game). In this case the US would join the French side and support them automatically after June 18, 1812! Can you imagine the consequences of such move by the US? Maybe you also have in mind some funny “what-if” elements that may completely change the course of the Napoleonic Wars? Feel free to give us your opinion and share your ideas on the forum!

And remember that if you don’t like “what-if” scenarios, this will only be an option. You’re in command, so it’s up to you to add decisive game changers … or not!

[CENTER]Image[/CENTER]
[CENTER]An example of possible What if Grand Campaign[/CENTER]

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Smitzer52
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:11 pm

Yes! More scripts the merrier, so basically these will be universal for any Faction? Or they will be different for GBR/FRA/RUS etc.?
"Best way to win a war is not to fight it"

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Pocus
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:06 pm

They will be 'universal', whatever the faction you play the same ones will be presented. Obviously some factions will benefit more from it.
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MarshalJean
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:35 pm

I just want to say, I love you, AGEOD. That is all.

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Pocus
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:41 pm

We now need your suggestions and we will pick the best ones!
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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FENRIS
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:12 pm

Hello !

Napoléon takes care of the alliance with the spanish Bourbons, no "coup de force" and Spain help France in the war against England and Portugal ?
Un what-if pas trop délirant, la France était alliée à l'Espagne avec des intérêts communs contre l'Angleterre et son allié le Portugal.
french troops allowed to cross Spain without war and no guerilla...

:)
[color="#FF8C00"][/color]Eylau 1807

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MarshalJean
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:52 pm

If the French manage (1) to drive all British forces out of Spain and (2) no Spanish force (Guerilla or otherwise) of divisional size or larger exists anywhere in the Penninsula and (3) France has at least two divisions of infantry in Madrid, then Spain automatically surrenders to France awarding the Empire with VPs. However, the country will continue to have a high unrest factor, requiring a high level of garrison troops. But this eventuality should be able to free up a large portion of Napoleon's regulars and Guards for other theaters. Obviously, these conditions are quite negotiable.

If Prussia is able to diplomatically or militarily unite itself to enough German minors (maybe a dozen to 15 states? parts of Poland, maybe?), then it can form some proto-North German Federation type of state, bringing it VPs, NM, production, and military advantages.

If the Holy Roman Empire is disbanded, Austria should be able to re-form it with itself as the head upon reconquering certain states.

Give the French player the option to play historically, thus creating various puppet states after meeting the required victory conditions (i.e. Conf of the Rhine, Grand Duchy of Warsaw, Kingdom of Italy, etc.) or to play ahistorically, choosing whether or not to create such states or to annex them outright. Both options should be associated with penalties and advantages, leaving it to the player to decide.

I'll post more as I think of them. I'm sure there are a lot better ideas out there in the community, as well.

romatrei
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:19 pm

I don't know the start date of the campaign but what if Paul I had escaped his assassination attempt and remained Tsar of Russia in 1801?
The whole game would be changed with a pro-French or at least much more neutral Russia.

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FENRIS
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:30 pm

romatrei wrote:I don't know the start date of the campaign but what if Paul I had escaped his assassination attempt and remained Tsar of Russia in 1801?
The whole game would be changed with a pro-French or at least much more neutral Russia.


+1
[color="#FF8C00"][/color]Eylau 1807

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" Regardez un peu ces figures-là si elles veulent se rendre !" (Lepic)[color="#FF8C00"][/color][I]
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romatrei
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Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:21 pm

Another idea, perhaps too complicated to show in game: what if the Saint-Domingue expedition worked, thus giving Napoleon an incentive not to sell Louisiana to the USA? You might get a possible alliance between the USA and Great Britain and a different set of objectives for France (less continental) from 1803/1804.

vonBredow
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:47 am

An obvious one would be the British losing at Trafalgar (perhaps Nelson gets killed at the Battle of the Nile previously?), and as a result, the French can now successfully invade Britain.

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Pocus
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:50 am

romatrei wrote:I don't know the start date of the campaign but what if Paul I had escaped his assassination attempt and remained Tsar of Russia in 1801?
The whole game would be changed with a pro-French or at least much more neutral Russia.


Cossack expedition sees its destination and successfully invades India or at least wreck havoc? Have Russia hostile to Great Britain in 1805 with troops occupying India would be ... hard for the British.

I see a lot of options making the game easier for the French, what about others ideas? What about others powers like the Ottomans? Can they have Persia under occupation, does it makes sense?
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Smitzer52
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:31 am

In my opinion there must be a chance for:

GBR vs. RUS hostility (be it India, Paul II etc.)

FRA and USA friendship or hostility ( 1812, french expedition, french Mexico)

German states + Italy should play a factor in deciding if they be pro French or pro Coalition and have a chance to unite or atleast work together against main players. Plus they can be a major factor for Austria deciding their course in war.

Spain is a must (Peninsular war for GBR, FRA has an option of a succesfull brother in control suppresing rebellion, killing Portugal etc.)

Quite a few options here, what´s important is a chance for rift between allies of that time and minors so you have it bit like TEAW just a lot better. Thus you can play it forever. :)

Ottoman empire going Coalition or full Bony could be fun (if they be on a map)
"Best way to win a war is not to fight it"

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marek1978
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:21 pm

France goes naval – alternative scenario in which Napoleon heavily invested in navy after 1802. Thus in the beginning of the campaign French navy is more noumerous and led by better officers.
An option would be another French commander – instead od incapable Villenueve admiral Latouche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis-Ren%C3%A9_Levassor_de_Latouche_Tr%C3%A9ville

BUT the French army is smaller and less qualified – meaning it must go on defence in 1805.

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marek1978
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:25 pm

One option that I would really like, and that would make it harder for France is Reform option for German States.
Meaning Austria and Prussia ( perhaps spain and Russia as well ) have an option to pay high price in VP, NM, and maybe rebel affiliation but go on with social, army and state reform – the way they did it after1805/1806 defeats.
So in the begging of the game these states have better army, led by better officers, with Bullow and Charles leading Prussian and Austrian armies respectively.

lecrop
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:17 pm

Spanish Ulcer with Catalonia as french ally

Triomphante, Catalogne,
sera riche et complet!
Sauvegarder ces personnes
si prétentieux et arrogant!

Bonne faucille!
Bonne faucille, défenseurs de la terre!
Bonne faucille!


Catalogne hymne en français hehe :w00t: :mdr:

Camile
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:23 pm

Some suggestions:

1.- Spain should only be held to France if France plays Madrid, Barcelona and, if Britain has troops on the peninsula, the three major ports of the fleet (Cadiz, Ferrol (Coruña) and Cartagena). If not, control of Madrid and Barcelona should be enough.

2.- The alliance between Austria and Prussia would be very difficult, due to historical susceptibility between the German hegemony.

3.- Poland's role should be more important, should be able to form a powerful state.

4.- A peace process should give much freedom to the formation of states or to the aggrandizement of some existing states (Confederation of the Rhine or the Kingdom of Italy type).

5.- I like the options to capture (and return) enemy leaders.

6.- The possibility to use elite units as a way to change the outcome of a battle should be studied also.

Of course, do not forget to enable the British fleet would be capable of preventing the invasion of Britain actually. (You know... Delenda est Carthago!)

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FENRIS
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:33 pm

Pocus wrote:Cossack expedition sees its destination and successfully invades India or at least wreck havoc? Have Russia hostile to Great Britain in 1805 with troops occupying India would be ... hard for the British.

I see a lot of options making the game easier for the French, what about others ideas? What about others powers like the Ottomans? Can they have Persia under occupation, does it makes sense?


Un empire Ottoman un peu plus actif ? dans le jeu de plateau Empires in arms, le Turc devenait important dans les Balkans : on peut envisager une donne plus mouvementée dans les balkans entre Autriche, Russie et Turquie.

de plus, Les Turcs font la paix avec les Russes en 1812, la guerre qui continue peut changer un peu la donne pour la campagne en Russie 1812 ou avant...

:wavey: :wavey:
[color="#FF8C00"][/color]Eylau 1807

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Searry
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:45 pm

Sounds like a very good idea! How about a possibility of making the Swedes more friendly towards the French? They could be more scared of Russia for example.

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marek1978
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:15 pm

As a Pole i might not be objective but here is another idea.

I would say that 4 nations should be granted possibility to play "the polish card"

Coalition should be given a choice of playing polish card, strongly hitting french chances of ever reaching Moscow...

Russia should have an option to create polish puppet state - that was an historical option, finally taken by Alexander in 1815 when he created Kingdom of Poland .
One should remember that during XVIII century Polish - Lithuanian state was in fact Russian puppet state, hard to control but sometimes giving fantastic base for active policy in western Europe.
Alexander foreign minister in 1805/1806 was count Czartoryski - young polish aristocrat, lover of Czar wife ( while Czartoryski sister was lover of Alexander himself).
Czartoryski was staunch enemy of Prussia and was hoping to form polish state and strengthening austro-russian alliance in a fashion similar to the 1756 one.
Playing polish card by Russia should protect it wester border while pushing prussia in napoleon hands. So in a way, if the engine allows we could have austrians, russians and brits playing against france and prussia - very similar to 1740 situation.

Prussia should be given tha chance to play the polish card - creating its own versuon of dual monarchy. Before 1807 over 40 percent of prussians subject were polish, warsaw being one of the most important cities and Prussian enlighten absolutism was attractive to number of polish middle class.
With these card played Prussia should be given boost in military power and stability, and wealth while alienating Russia - no chance for help in 1806 and chance for stabbing in the back....

Austria in some extend should be given a chance to create some kind of polish puppet state... With the hit in national morale but with some units and some polish comanders being unlocked for it...

France - given historical and alternative choice.

Historical - creating small, puppet polish state after defeating Prusia ( grand duchy of warsaw) or austria ( grand duchy of cracov)

Alternative - going with full polish resurrection - thus creating strong Polish/ Polish-Lithuanian state withe big army, restoring 1791 constitution, perhaps creating playable faction. The big advantage would be having a really strong loyal and devoted ally in the east, while the big disadvantage would be big alienating Austria, Prusia and Russia.

Lysimaque
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:00 pm

1-Keep Hre or no after Austerlitz?

2-Possibility to save Danish Fleet from English

3-Sweden Invasion of Denmark

4-Peace beetween Ottoman and France and coalition vs English

5- What if France manage to keep Egypt in 1805?

6-Annex or no Neetherland for France

7-Russia choose direct battle instead of retreat during russian campaign


Just some ways that could interesting what if. Most of all, i hope we could have the possibility to change alliance for some country like Ottoman, Sweden or Spain.

romatrei
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:24 pm

What if Prussia fully commits itself to the third coalition? An Austerlitz with Prussia/Russia/Austria against France, that would be tricky.

VigaBrand
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Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:38 pm

Made a Napoleon win Waterloo Campaigne.
This isn't so unrealistic (let the british lines break before the prussians arrived) and you can made a full campagne with no historical events or so, because nobody will know what happend.
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Pocus
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:42 am

lecrop wrote:Spanish Ulcer with Catalonia as french ally

Triomphante, Catalogne,
sera riche et complet!
Sauvegarder ces personnes
si prétentieux et arrogant!

Bonne faucille!
Bonne faucille, défenseurs de la terre!
Bonne faucille!


Catalogne hymne en français hehe :w00t: :mdr:


Look look, a War&Peace French guard counter! :)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

lecrop
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:04 am

Pocus wrote:Look look, a War&Peace French guard counter! :)


My first love in the wargame's world. When we were young... :love:

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Lindi
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:58 am

What if :

USA take Canada. Maybe Napoléon can send troop to Canada also. After that USA can send ship and maybe small troop to Europe. So have a big war in naval.

(Also with that you can includ french-Canada troop for French Side :bonk :)

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Matto
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:08 pm

YES YES YES !!! It is great idea !!!
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Ironclad61
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:15 pm

What about and option to made the french Egypt campaign a succes with an alliance between France and Ottoman empire??? they can attack the soft belly of Rusia and/or send troops to distract forces from AH empire when France need it... and well, with Ottomans you have to a not very strong allie that could be more a problem than a help.

Peninsular campaign... maybe one easy what if is Napoleon dont try put "bottle Pepe" as king and Spain remain in the alliance with France, GB try first help Portugal and if all works fine try made Spain leave the alliance with France... France has again an ulcer in the Peninsula but at least have an allied on the terrain and dont face guerrillas, the basic idea is fight for the Peninsula with GB doing something that historically doesnt need do, that is mantein terrain and dont have an allied that do the dirty job, with this we can see a bigger GB army in Peninsular not only a fighting army, an ocupation army... a chance to see a les profesional army and closer to nation in arms situation.

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Matto
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Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:13 pm

Germany joining the 1805 war to France against Russia and Austria ...
Napoleon days in Austerlitz 2011 - photo gallery
My Czech pages agout AGEOD: AGEOD games, RoP AAR - Prussian side
My AGEOD games: WoN, TYW, EAW, CW2, AJE, PoN, NCP, ROP Gold, RUS Gold and BOA2

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marek1978
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Lets make it harder for France.....

Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:11 am

What if Spain was full coalition member in 1805?

Perhaps with Ferdinand as a king. With full on agenda on regaining influence in Italy? With objective town in Naples and maybe Parma, Genus and Rome?
It would mean no chances of French invasion on UK, full on naval campaign in the mediterranean, important Italian campaign....
French need to send even 50 000 soldiers down there - to southern France and Italy would seriously limit its chances to be offensive in Germany.

Such a scenario in not pure fantasy, lets imagine that Napoleon was successful in his colonial policy prior to 1805 and Luisiana, Haiti and Cape Town are in french hands... Spain is uncertain about its holdings in Cuba while is having an hungry eye on New Orleans,,,

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