User avatar
Straight Arrow
Colonel
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Washington State

To the Mountians!

Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:41 pm

In my current game, I seen some odd retreat behavior from the Austrians. In the latest episode, after loosing a battle, even though they were not encircled and had other viable options, their main army retreated/fled into the mountains where it ended up withering away due supply shortages and attrition.

Yep, fleeing to the hills is a great move for bandits, partisans and revolutionaries, but it's the kiss of death for large, poorly supplied forces.

How does the retreat code work in WON?

User avatar
Durk
Posts: 2179
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Wyoming

Re: To the Mountians!

Sat Apr 15, 2017 1:59 am

Well, my short and sarcastic answer is - the way retreat works in all AGEOD games!
The rule I have derived is this: Retreat is to the most annoying and impossibly difficult region possible. In this mindset, I imagine the retreat algorithm is this: where would the player most hate to have forces retreat? That is where they will retreat. This is not unique to WON. I first noticed it back with WIA was almost new.

Actually, I think the algorithm is based upon loyalty, control and avoiding ZOC (which you do not see as the ZOC is not visible during the battle phase).

I would, of course, like you, have an actual explanation. After years of playing these games, with much delight, I am as baffled as are you.

User avatar
Captain_Orso
Posts: 5422
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: To the Mountians!

Sun Apr 16, 2017 4:15 pm

Image

Look in GameLogic.opt, and especially at:

ctlRetreatAdjCity = 5 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a city (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjFort = 30 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a fort (per level)
ctlRetreatAdjDepot = 25 // Interest in retreating toward a region with a depot (per level)
ctlRetreatLandLink = 10 // Interest in retreating toward a region, value per land link

These are probably the most important factors in determining retreat direction.

User avatar
Straight Arrow
Colonel
Posts: 342
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2014 5:44 pm
Location: Washington State

Re: To the Mountians!

Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:54 am

Thanks Durk, it's some times great to have another voice join yours when howling at the moon.

Captain_Orso, I appreciate your shedding light on the information. Are the retreat values the same for CW2?

User avatar
Cardinal Ape
General of the Army
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:59 am

Re: To the Mountians!

Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:34 pm

Oo! Oo! Can I join in on this howling at the moon? Some punk just attacked me in Fort Niagara - my troops, led by Ethen Allen retreated UP the falls into Canada - instead of retreating anywhere towards America. Man, I know Ethen Allen is a bad-ass mountain man, but leading his force up the waterfall is madness. With the vast empty Canadian wilderness to his back, a great lake to either flank, and a fort on a river blocking his way back home... Well, at least its not snowing...

--

Yup, those retreat values Orso posted are the same for CW2 and BOA2, most likely its the same in other games as well.

Do note that the chances to retreat to a city or depot are per level. If a force is next to a large civilized region, like New York, its almost guaranteed to retreat there. But when there is no obvious place to retreat to it is crazy random.

User avatar
Captain_Orso
Posts: 5422
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: To the Mountians!

Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:47 pm

Straight Arrow wrote:Thanks Durk, it's some times great to have another voice join yours when howling at the moon.

Captain_Orso, I appreciate your shedding light on the information. Are the retreat values the same for CW2?


Those I took directly from a WoN installation. I didn't try to compare them with CW2.

Also note, that if you are moving the turn a battle occurs, 250 points for determining the retreat target are added to the last region you were in before entering the battle region. So, if you move into battle and then have to retreat, you will almost always return to the last region you were in.

I honestly have no idea what you guys are moaning about; no really. You sound like, "mehhhhh, I always retreat into the worst location possible; Athena's cheating against me"; "my army retreated into the mountains, because there was absolutely nothing else for which it to retreat toward, and because I didn't have enough supply to sit there for 2 months, and because I didn't move them to the closest depot, they starved, mehhhhhhhhh".

If you have some real examples, preferably with saves, where a retreat really made no sense, maybe we could get Pocus to have a look at fixing it. Otherwise, I have a tool for you to use: <RANT></RANT>, use liberally.

User avatar
Cardinal Ape
General of the Army
Posts: 602
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:59 am

Re: To the Mountians!

Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:11 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:I honestly have no idea what you guys are moaning about; no really. You sound like, "mehhhhh, I always retreat into the worst location possible; Athena's cheating against me"; "my army retreated into the mountains, because there was absolutely nothing else for which it to retreat toward, and because I didn't have enough supply to sit there for 2 months, and because I didn't move them to the closest depot, they starved, mehhhhhhhhh".

If you have some real examples, preferably with saves, where a retreat really made no sense, maybe we could get Pocus to have a look at fixing it. Otherwise, I have a tool for you to use: <RANT></RANT>, use liberally.


:papy: Bah humbug! This is our party and we can cry if we want to. :pleure:

That punk who attacked me in Fort Niagara was Straight Arrow - that's why I came in this thread to 'moan'. I wasn't saying the retreat made no sense by the rules, really, the chaos of battle should produce the occasional horrible retreat. Honestly, I just wanted to publicly chastise my commander for retreating to one of the worst/strange/amusing spots I have seen in a long while. Though, if one thing is for certain: those redcoats won't be pursuing Allen and Clark up a waterfall. Actually, now that I think about it, if the goal in retreating is to prevent the enemy from re-engaging then Allen's retreat may be the best ever.

User avatar
Captain_Orso
Posts: 5422
Joined: Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:02 pm
Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Re: To the Mountians!

Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:53 pm

Come'ere CA Image here, take these [<RANT></RANT>] They will serve you well. The world is a dangerous place, so take this too ...

Image

I always have one with me when I'm reeving through Skellige Image

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1784
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Re: To the Mountians!

Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:00 am

It reminds me the novel of Yasar Kemal whose character early 20's of age retreat with his cavalry to Toros mountains. Folktale tells he didn't die after 17 bullets in his body.

User avatar
Pocus
Posts: 24721
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:37 am
Location: Lyon (France)

Re: To the Mountians!

Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:09 pm

Durk wrote:Well, my short and sarcastic answer is - the way retreat works in all AGEOD games!
The rule I have derived is this: Retreat is to the most annoying and impossibly difficult region possible. In this mindset, I imagine the retreat algorithm is this: where would the player most hate to have forces retreat? That is where they will retreat. This is not unique to WON. I first noticed it back with WIA was almost new.

Actually, I think the algorithm is based upon loyalty, control and avoiding ZOC (which you do not see as the ZOC is not visible during the battle phase).

I would, of course, like you, have an actual explanation. After years of playing these games, with much delight, I am as baffled as are you.


I'm baffled too, because the code as been looked upon several time and is now complex enough to be realistic... And yet, sometime it don't work logically...

Return to “Wars of Napoleon”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests