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nlancier
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"Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:29 am

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4229858
Totally agree !

Besides promising a good new game, WSS, instead of fixing WoN would not help as these 2 games are for different eras and for napoleonic gamers that would not be enough. WoN has a great potential that current pbem gamers know as there are not many pbem napoleonic grand campaign strategy games around,especailly when it is wego system what you are looking for, i just request from developers not to abandon that WoN game but fix it, releasing wss is not a solution.
We have a game where 75% of Austria is occupied by France Austria moral is only 56 or so yet Austria still get subsidies from GB & continues? France has offered the scripted peace terms like Pressburg yet Austria still can continues with the war.
All Austria has to do is not engage in any battles avoid fights. Yet this war continues.

There hasnt been a upgrade since August 2016. Are you guys abandoning this game? in referance to support or what?.

There has never been enough explanation to the scripting events and what we are to expect in game terms. This may ok for the solo players out there but there is a lot of us who are in Multiplayer gamers who need to work out some grand strategy.
Peace offerings where no one accepts, because of the choice of gamey effects which doesnt do well for the experience.

The whole game is based on Hindsight of History, Not making your own history. If I wanted to see history Id be better of watching a movie, the reason most of us play a game is to do something to change the dreaded obvious.

So what are your plans for the future of this game then please? a lot of people will watching the answers on this

The combat system is good, and the logistics are good, just need a clean up with AI Minors being more active, and political/peace issues

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gazfun
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:17 am

I agree with Lancier
Whats going with this game please what progress is being made

PythonMagus
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:09 pm

Let's no lose this beautiful looking game for a few gut wrenching playability defects. There has to be a price to fix these. How much?

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PhilThib
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:53 pm

FYI, the WSS game is produced by an independent team and designer, as was the case of EAW or TYW.

We are aware of issues on WON and other titles, but our small team has now been assigned to other full-time compelling tasks and we don't have the leisure to work on past titles right now.

We however use hours of our free time to do our best to fix what we can, thanks to players giving us information on what does not work for them. So we'll probably come up with improvements, but they can only come after some time and when enough support has been received. It's more a matter of (free) time than anything else unfortunately :pleure:

ess1
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:22 pm

:pleure: :pleure: for you. Especially as we luckily won at Twickenham!

I'm sure that, with perseverance, WON will eventually improve for pbmers.
There must be many dedicated gamers with sufficient know-how that can help out if allowed. Alas I'm not one of them :(

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:33 am

I hear frustrations from gamers with regard to WON and am puzzled. I am in a handful of pbem games as several different countries and every player in these games is learning so much about the game. So far, nothing is broken, but there is much more to learn. For me, PON is more of a mystery.
Some flukes, for sure, but AGEOD has the reputation for sticking with a game for an extended time to fix the glitches. But as a game, if you have seven players who love to go at it, wow, the dynamics and options and outcomes are marvelous. In one game France is getting kicked around two years into the game. In another France is preparing to drive on Moscow in the same time frame. In a third, France has landed in England and prepares to march on London.
When has any player had a Napoleonic era game with so many options for alternative play without being in a straight-jacket of historical determinism, yet totally constrained by historical realities. I think it is a wonder game.
The flexible dynamic of the diplomatic interface is very challenging as every player wishes for more control, but it is pretty much open for players, usually France, to do as they choose.

Pans
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:49 am

I like WoN very much of its details and historical game Play. Anyway I agree totally what Lancier posted. The game do not give PBEM enough freedom to Play their own game. There is no good documentation about surrender Settings and other internal procedures you Need to know as a Major power. I hope the developer Team can help here and bring this game to real glory.

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nlancier
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:51 am

In a 7 player pbem, France sent Austria (me) treaty of Schoenbrun but i cant see it on my screen ... any ideas ?

ess1
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:20 pm

I agree with Durk that game is extremely challenging and enjoyable for 7-player MPs.
However, as GB, I (and no doubt my formal (!) allies - 2 left Coalition :crying: ), it was annoying that I was not allowed to give money & war supplies at a time they needed them. So WON does not allow us to fully implement our diplomatic actions.

Perhaps they left poor old me because of my indifferent actions :) Still enjoying the best Napoleon wego about.

Thanks for this game.

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nlancier
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:59 pm

I agree and really like this game as mentioned before not many napoleonic grand campaign strategy games around, especially when it is Turn-Based WEGO system ! BUT there must be an explanation for the issues that you mentioned as well ?

So WON does not allow us to fully implement our diplomatic actions.


and again i mention,

France sent Austria (me) treaty of Schoenbrun but i cant see it on my screen


This seems critical for the course of the whole game as pbem games with 7 players sometimes takes months so it must not be a waste of time for anyone !?

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Durk
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:58 pm

Is the option for the treaty of Schoenbrun in the ledger? That's where I find game initiated treaties.

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nlancier
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:20 pm

I meant the treaty of Schoenbrun in the decrees (F4) that France can send to Austria.
?
But as Austria, i cant see it in "treaty to reply" under diplomacy screen F6 so i can accept.
Durk wrote:Is the option for the treaty of Schoenbrun in the ledger? That's where I find game initiated treaties.

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gazfun
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:18 pm

Pans wrote:I like WoN very much of its details and historical game Play. Anyway I agree totally what Lancier posted. The game do not give PBEM enough freedom to Play their own game. There is no good documentation about surrender Settings and other internal procedures you Need to know as a Major power. I hope the developer Team can help here and bring this game to real glory.

As a major power Like France and GB you need to have a bit more certainty with the peace and the relationship of minor countries a lot more clearer than now

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Captain_Orso
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:16 pm

nlancier wrote:I meant the treaty of Schoenbrun in the decrees (F4) that France can send to Austria.
?
But as Austria, i cant see it in "treaty to reply" under diplomacy screen F6 so i can accept.
Durk wrote:Is the option for the treaty of Schoenbrun in the ledger? That's where I find game initiated treaties.


Special Treaties like Pressburg and Schönbrunn are not handled on the Foreign Ministry page <F6>, where standard treaties are handled, but rather in the Laws and Decrees page <F4>. That is where you should find the option to accept the treaty.

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nlancier
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:33 pm

Thanks Orso but it is not there too.
?

Captain_Orso wrote:Special Treaties like Pressburg and Schönbrunn are not handled on the Foreign Ministry page <F6>, where standard treaties are handled, but rather in the Laws and Decrees page <F4>. That is where you should find the option to accept the treaty.

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:53 pm

If France has not chosen the Peace of Schönbrunn option, Austria will not have in on her Laws and Decrees page.

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Citizen X
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:00 am

Aren't those peace options one-way-streets? I always thought that certain conditions need to be met and then Austria can't do anything about it.

Is there any possibilty to force peace on an opponent in WON and how?

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:01 pm

No, they are interactive. I don't have an example of the Peace Of Schönbrunn, but of the Peace of Pressburg.

Once France has captured Vienna she receives this option under Laws and Decrees <F4>

Image

If France selects the option, the next turn she gets this message in the MailBox

Image

This message opens this display

Image

The same turn Austria finds this in her MailBox

Image

which opens to this message

Image

The Austrian tool-tips for this full message are missing.

Baris
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:12 am

I think Pressburg peace option could be signed immediately when Vienna captured. Pbem player may decide to conquest and beat rest of Austrian army. It results chase and destroy condition lowering NM.

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:04 am

If FRA is human and AUS is AI, once FRA signs the treaty, AI will automatically countersign the treaty the next turn.

If FRA has taken Vienna and doesn't wish to sign the treaty, that's the player's decision, which has it's own consequences. By the time FRA has taken Vienna, it will be winter, or very close to it. That doesn't leave much time for running down AUS & RUS forces, and will leave FRA corps deep in Austria & Czechoslovakia, with possible major issues with supplies.

FRA just might have more interest in getting ready for the next summer's campaign, but that's for the player to decide.

Baris
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:44 pm

Thanks for the answer. We started Jan campaign as a 1 vs 1 setup. Fra, Spa and Tur controlled by other player the rest 4 nations controlled by me. It is great fun. :dada: Napoleon, Murat and Davout attack Wien and Pressburg while Ney take control of all 4 cities in Bohemia. Austrians and 1 Russian stack retreated to Slovakia in august. Blücher's force should be ready soon. Prussia is not in war yet.

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gazfun
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:56 am

Captain_Orso wrote:If FRA is human and AUS is AI, once FRA signs the treaty, AI will automatically countersign the treaty the next turn.

If FRA has taken Vienna and doesn't wish to sign the treaty, that's the player's decision, which has it's own consequences. By the time FRA has taken Vienna, it will be winter, or very close to it. That doesn't leave much time for running down AUS & RUS forces, and will leave FRA corps deep in Austria & Czechoslovakia, with possible major issues with supplies.

FRA just might have more interest in getting ready for the next summer's campaign, but that's for the player to decide.


Im afraid thats not good enough. In a multiplayer we have had France requesting a peace treaty with 75% of Austria occupied by french troops and the Vienna taken and they still continue the war, for months on. Thats the cause of my original post here about crazy Surrender rules. And that hasn't been addressed, as far as I can see. Weve had the peace of Shonhurst or whatever its called asked by France, Austria ignored it, and dow on Turkey to try and gain points. Its ridiculous situation to say the least.
Peace terms are only 6 months. In EiA the smallest term was with a white peace for 12 months standard peace terms was 18months, and on special conditions 24 and 36 months that can changed depending on the war score.
We have guys that go to war continuously ignore request for peace terms. Its like Total war. In those days when war was declared even in Napoleons time it was mainly between the armies. They didn't want to inconvenience the civil population, too much with wars because it causes too much General Civil unrest.
6 months peace minimum peace terms doesn't count for this factor at all.

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:44 pm

Ageod titles, with all that has been done over the years on the machine side, still rely on the players insight and wisdom. That not everything that the code allows is a valid choice in order to have a good game. People forget that we play together to have fun.
No code can substitute that. Not when on the other hand a certain freedom of choice is demanded.

Same with people that have a problem with the length of the game. 500 - 1000 turns is naught for the trigger-happy, yet it appears as though half the guys that play these titles are excactly that.
Can't be checked by sheer code, either.

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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:52 pm

So, what you are saying Gazfun, is that the Austrian player is playing recklessly, and that the game should prevent that. No, really not.

Either your reckless Austrian player should start playing sensibly--maybe explain to him, why DOW'ing Turkey, while practically already having lost the war with France, makes little sense--, or you should find somebody to replace him, or kick him and let Athena take over. But the game is not responsible for poor play, nor do I know any games which might do that.

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nlancier
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Re: "Crazy Surrending rules & Ageod backup for this game"

Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:44 pm

Gentlemen, i am the replacement player for austria for that won pbem which still goes on and below is how it was from my pow:

When i joined the game Russia asked Austria if he goes with the coalition (GB-Russia) who were at war with France or not.

Austria told that he will join the coalition. So GB-Russia-Austria were fighting Napoleon that time. While Russia was maneuvering and bringing lots of Russia forces towards Wien from east, Austria was combining his forces to get ready for a combined attack to Napoleon with Russia.

While these were happeing Austria lost 1-2 small battles but gathered his forces but some time Napoleon’s 1-2 corps caught Kutusov so badly and Russia lost so many men while Austria lost Wien. Russia said to coalition that he will pull back and reform his forces as France commanders were too powerful.

While these were happening GB continued sending movey and WS to Austria for him to stand as coalition was still standing.
So France once more asked if Austria was making peace stating GB-Russia left him alone. BUT Austria knowing that Russia will reform and GB sending money and WS refused that offer and stayed with the coalition. So Austria took 1-2 cities in Italy from France but could not stand too long so pulled back towards eastern borders cause needed his fresh corps.

While these were happening Prussia was neutral. Coalition did not convinced him to fight against Napoleon. And then, GB started invasion of Ottoman. Austria decided to give his ally a hand and took moldavia and 1-2 Ottoman cities so Ottoman forces were seperated from north to south lost so many NM.

While these were happening Prussia decided to join Napoleon and declared war on Russia. Austira knowing that after Prussia joining Napoleon asked France if he would accept the peace with Austria. Napoleon said he will send Peace Of Schönbrunn and Austria accepting that, made peace with France and Ottoman now. That is it. So all these were not a matter of France vs Austria battle. It was France vs the coalition (Austria-Russia-GB) So Austria did not try to win a war himself, he worked for the coalition, waited the coalition find the perfect time to beat Napoleon while he was dealing with Austria but that never happened. So I think it was a great victory of France but nothing else.

Could there be better and early surrending options ? sure but with all these that happened in the game it was not that bad according to me as France achieved what he might want after a war he won.

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