Question on Organizing non-Corps Armies

[Redhammer627]

Hello everyone, new player here! I just got Wars of Napoleon after previously disavowing the AGE Engine several years ago and so far it feels/looks a LOT better, great work!

Anyway, I have been having some problems grasping the organization of the non-French armies. I loaded up the Austerlitz scenario as the Russians to get a nice, small and easily manageable army after beating it from the French side. I understand that the coaltion members do not yet have access to the Corps system, so what is the best way to organize your armies?

For instance, Kutusov starts off in a stack with just himself, a HQ, and some supply. He has several stacks around him (6 various "Kolumns"). Now, as I understand it, these units are not actually attached to Kutusov in the game like the various French Corps are, so there is no real cohesion between them and the Army leader. So what is the best way to use this "army"? Should I merge some Kolumns into Kutusov's stack, or just move them all together as if they were a single formation to their destination? Also, do they have any March to the Sound of the Guns capability? For example, if half the army was in one province while the other half were in an adjacent province, would they support each other if one came under attack?

Also a some more general questions, what is the benefit of having units in an Army that are not in one of the divisions? I understand in reality that these units would be the high commander's reserve to be committed as needed in the greater battle. Is this represented in the game? Also, are there any tips/guides out there for designing the composition of your divisions? Finally, is there a way to detach a Corps from an army and make it subordinate to a different army? (seems like something that would be useful later in the Grand Campaign)

Thanks!!!

[vicberg]

You can still form divisions (10 I think). So get as much into an army, form up divisions and max out command. You won't have MTSG for a while, so you need as much as possible under a single stack

[Redhammer627]

You can still form divisions (10 I think). So get as much into an army, form up divisions and max out command. You won't have MTSG for a while, so you need as much as possible under a single stack

Hmmm ok. So just ignore the starting organization of the army by columns and go straight for army stacks is the best way to go? Is there any benefit to leaving some regiments outside of the divisions and instead directly subordinate to my army leader?

[Lucky]

Not a real expert but this is what I have learned. Build the killer stack. MTSG(move to the sound of guns) is not as important if you have a killer stack. The limit on the stack is command points. I think that is 25. To add more troops to a stack use divisions. Divisions cost less command points than if you had the same number of brigades. To create a division select an ACTIVE commander. Give him a division command. Then with him highlighted/Selected control click the brigades you want in the division and press the + button under the camp toggle. I make sure that I have a light inf brigade if available plus some cavalry and a battery. You can look at the units included in the French division builds to get an idea.

[Redhammer627]

Not a real expert but this is what I have learned. Build the killer stack. MTSG(move to the sound of guns) is not as important if you have a killer stack. The limit on the stack is command points. I think that is 25. To add more troops to a stack use divisions. Divisions cost less command points than if you had the same number of brigades. To create a division select an ACTIVE commander. Give him a division command. Then with him highlighted/Selected control click the brigades you want in the division and press the + button under the camp toggle. I make sure that I have a light inf brigade if available plus some cavalry and a battery. You can look at the units included in the French division builds to get an idea.

Ok, thank you! So is their a max number of brigades you find that you end up filling a division with, or do you just fill in as many as you can? What are some of the tradeoffs of putting brigades into divisons vs having the Army control them (like arty or cav reserves). Thanks!

[Captain_Orso]

MTSG (March to The Sound of Guns) is only relevant to Corps and Army Stacks in neighboring regions. MTSG does not occur to Stacks within one region.

The goal with Stacks is to NOT exceed the Stack Commander's CP (Command Point) value. Check the Stack's Stack Panel Tab tool-tip. It will tell you how many CP's the Stack Commander has, and how many are being used by his stack.

Divisions require 3 CP's each. Units (single counters, which cannot be broken down further) not in Divisions often require 2 to 3 CP's each. Organizing them into a Division reduces greatly the required number of CP's, so you will want to put as many Units into Divisions as possible. Also, units, either in a Division or directly combined with a leader, will fight better. So if you cannot fit all of your units into Divisions, but still have some leaders without Division Command and not already combined with a unit, try to combine these leaders with any lose units.

If you can fit all of your Divisions and other Units into Katusov's Army Command Stack without exceeding his CP's, that is the way to go. But if all of your Divisions and Units exceed his CP's, you may be better off creating a second stack. For each CP exceeding the Stack's available CP's the entire stack loses 5% on combat strength and mobility. This can quickly lead to situations in which adding a unit with a power of 30 causing the entire stack to lose a net 100 on power.

The disadvantage of having multiple stacks in a region is that there is a possibility that only one stack fights in a battle, or the second only starts fighting later in the battle. Also, when multiple non-corps, non-army stacks move, there is a chance they will move at different speeds and not arrive in a region on the same day, thus allowing a battle to start with the first arriving stack, before the following stack can take part in the battle.

[Redhammer627]

MTSG (March to The Sound of Guns) is only relevant to Corps and Army Stacks in neighboring regions. MTSG does not occur to Stacks within one region.

The goal with Stacks is to NOT exceed the Stack Commander's CP (Command Point) value. Check the Stack's Stack Panel Tab tool-tip. It will tell you how many CP's the Stack Commander has, and how many are being used by his stack.

Divisions require 3 CP's each. Units (single counters, which cannot be broken down further) not in Divisions often require 2 to 3 CP's each. Organizing them into a Division reduces greatly the required number of CP's, so you will want to put as many Units into Divisions as possible. Also, units, either in a Division or directly combined with a leader, will fight better. So if you cannot fit all of your units into Divisions, but still have some leaders without Division Command and not already combined with a unit, try to combine these leaders with any lose units.

If you can fit all of your Divisions and other Units into Katusov's Army Command Stack without exceeding his CP's, that is the way to go. But if all of your Divisions and Units exceed his CP's, you may be better off creating a second stack. For each CP exceeding the Stack's available CP's the entire stack loses 5% on combat strength and mobility. This can quickly lead to situations in which adding a unit with a power of 30 causing the entire stack to lose a net 100 on power.

The disadvantage of having multiple stacks in a region is that there is a possibility that only one stack fights in a battle, or the second only starts fighting later in the battle. Also, when multiple non-corps, non-army stacks move, there is a chance they will move at different speeds and not arrive in a region on the same day, thus allowing a battle to start with the first arriving stack, before the following stack can take part in the battle.

Wow, thank you very much for the informative reply! That definitely answered a lot of my concerns. The only other lingering question I have is what is the point/benefit of having surplus commanders in your stack that are not either leading the stack or leading a division? Thanks again!

[Ace]

Surplus leaders benefit is limited, if any.
Stack receives their trait benefits, and they contribute to thetotal CP if maximum haven't already been reached.

[Captain_Orso]

If they have an ability such as Artillerist, which explicitly states that it affects 'the stack it is in', it will provide that ability. Otherwise they are only in reserve in case another leader is killed, or a waist.

Army and Corps stacks generally exceed the capacity which is allowed through other leaders already in the stack, so they won't be providing CP's.

[BruceASinger@gmail.com]

MTSG (March to The Sound of Guns) is only relevant to Corps and Army Stacks in neighboring regions. MTSG does not occur to Stacks within one region.

The goal with Stacks is to NOT exceed the Stack Commander's CP (Command Point) value. Check the Stack's Stack Panel Tab tool-tip. It will tell you how many CP's the Stack Commander has, and how many are being used by his stack.

Divisions require 3 CP's each. Units (single counters, which cannot be broken down further) not in Divisions often require 2 to 3 CP's each. Organizing them into a Division reduces greatly the required number of CP's, so you will want to put as many Units into Divisions as possible. Also, units, either in a Division or directly combined with a leader, will fight better. So if you cannot fit all of your units into Divisions, but still have some leaders without Division Command and not already combined with a unit, try to combine these leaders with any lose units.

If you can fit all of your Divisions and other Units into Katusov's Army Command Stack without exceeding his CP's, that is the way to go. But if all of your Divisions and Units exceed his CP's, you may be better off creating a second stack. For each CP exceeding the Stack's available CP's the entire stack loses 5% on combat strength and mobility. This can quickly lead to situations in which adding a unit with a power of 30 causing the entire stack to lose a net 100 on power.

The disadvantage of having multiple stacks in a region is that there is a possibility that only one stack fights in a battle, or the second only starts fighting later in the battle. Also, when multiple non-corps, non-army stacks move, there is a chance they will move at different speeds and not arrive in a region on the same day, thus allowing a battle to start with the first arriving stack, before the following stack can take part in the battle.

Is there a limit of how many Brigades you can but into a Divsion? Some of the starting French Divisions have 10+ units in the divisions.

[Captain_Orso]

You can have a maximum of 18 elements and 14 units, of which 1 must be a leader.

Units are the counters, which cannot be broken down further. They are generally made up of several elements, eg. 3 infantry regiments and 1 artillery battery.

[BruceASinger@gmail.com]

You can have a maximum of 18 elements and 14 units, of which 1 must be a leader.

Units are the counters, which cannot be broken down further. They are generally made up of several elements, eg. 3 infantry regiments and 1 artillery battery.

Thanks for the info.

How do you find out this information??

[Pocus]

Captain_Orso, as many entities in this forum is in fact only a bot spontaneously created by the game engine.

[BruceASinger@gmail.com]

Captain_Orso, as many entities in this forum is in fact only a bot spontaneously created by the game engine.

There is no world, there is only the ageod engine.

[Nappy]

Sometimes it seems to me, it's better for a group of individual brigades + a leader to stay as separate brigades, because certain leaders when given "divisional" command, their stats become terrible.

Example; Broussier (5-3-2) plus 2 separate brigades =166 combat power. The downside is it costs 4 CP, plus it's considered 3 units. This is without being given divisional command.
[ATTACH]39187[/ATTACH]

When given divisional command his stats drop dramatically to 3-1-1 and the combat strength drops to 157. The positive side is that his stack is only 3 CP as compared to 4 and it's considered 1 unit.
[ATTACH]39188[/ATTACH]

So, it would seem to me, why should I create a division? I do realize that I could add an additional artillery unit (+1 CP) to beef up the combat strength, but, his stats are so much worse.

Thoughts?

[Captain_Orso]

Thanks for the info.

How do you find out this information??

Well, since all o|[*click* - EPP[SUP]*[/SUP] Initiated. *Energy Preservation Phase]

Captain_Orso, as many entities in this forum is in fact only a bot spontaneously created by the game engine.

*bzzz*BEEP*]

There is no world, there is only the ageod engine.

Sometimes it seems to me, it's better for a group of individual brigades + a leader to stay as separate brigades, because certain leaders when given "divisional" command, their stats become terrible.

Example; Broussier (5-3-2) plus 2 separate brigades =166 combat power. The downside is it costs 4 CP, plus it's considered 3 units. This is without being given divisional command.
[ATTACH]39187[/ATTACH]

When given divisional command his stats drop dramatically to 3-1-1 and the combat strength drops to 157. The positive side is that his stack is only 3 CP as compared to 4 and it's considered 1 unit.
[ATTACH]39188[/ATTACH]

So, it would seem to me, why should I create a division? I do realize that I could add an additional artillery unit (+1 CP) to beef up the combat strength, but, his stats are so much worse.

Thoughts?

[As Juno nears its destination, Flight Specialist Bart Conroy's elbow tips his Chi-Latte Venti over the EPP control pannel]

[*bzzz* *pop*] ..f AGEod game use the same engine, now in the second generation, most of the game rules are the same in all games. A lot of what I know comes from searching through the forums. Also, I've been doing this for a few years soo... huh? w-w-wwhat just happened? Okay, never mind--I gotta lay off that medicinal mar.. nothing! I wasn't saying anything

No, a leader's values never change from taking divisional command, EXCEPT for the turn he is given it. On that turn, and that turn only, all of his stats are reduced by 2 each, to at the most (least?) 1-1-1. This represents the time it takes him to organize himself and get his command structure organized. After that turn his stats return to their normal values.

The only time I can think of when having a brigade not inside a division being better, would be if the brigade represented a very special brigade which had very low CP assigned to it, and it were so large that it was nearly a division already. But those don't exist in WON AFAIK. There are a few in other games though.

[Nappy]

Outstanding, thanks for the answer...I can now fix a bunch of my adhoc, "non-division" divisions. ;-)