epaminondas
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Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:28 am

Playing CP and I've just had the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk fire for Russia. I've also had a bunch of my units situated beyond the treaty line "destroyed for lack of transport". Surely that can't mean what it appears to mean.

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Pocus
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:09 am

You better roll back the turn and then move the units to another place then, because yes I believe it is what you think... :bonk:

I wonder what was the initial intent of t he event, probably to displace the units before signing the treaty. You would need to contact Altaris or PhilThib for further explanations on this event.

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Nikel
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:27 pm

Will there be more patches for this game?


Altaris said after WSS is finished.

So is it finished though not released?
Last edited by Nikel on Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:06 pm

Rats! And other expressions of discontent.

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Nikel
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:30 pm

epaminondas wrote:Rats! And other expressions of discontent.



LOL :mdr:


Curiosity, where were those units located at?

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:29 pm

I can't recall the message exactly, but it nominated "areas around" Volkova, Alekhnova, and Veliki Luki. Though not specifically mentioned it also produced the abandonment of areas around my monitor, computer desk, and all residential facilities within earshot.

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Thu Jan 04, 2018 8:08 am

Pocus wrote:You better roll back the turn and then move the units to another place then, because yes I believe it is what you think... :bonk:


Sorry, should have gotten to this earlier - distracted by the pain.

Rolling back doesn't seem to be a big help. The firing of the treaty event appears to be determined by chance as affected by the respective alignment values - so there's no guarantee that replaying the turn, with or without "evacuations", will reproduce the surrender. I did actually manage to get a repeat after moving my endangered units, but I'm pretty sure that this produced some differences in the boundaries set.

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Pocus
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Re: Explanation please

Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:11 pm

I guess the event would need to be edited, if you manage to roll back before it happens.

WSS is not yet released, but I believe it will be very soon.

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Nikel
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Re: Explanation please

Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:25 pm

epaminondas wrote:I can't recall the message exactly, but it nominated "areas around" Volkova, Alekhnova, and Veliki Luki. Though not specifically mentioned it also produced the abandonment of areas around my monitor, computer desk, and all residential facilities within earshot.




All in the Northern part of the front, in the game :niark:

Ottoman and KuK armies not as strong as the German? :rolleyes:


Why don't you post a save, it will be useful I guess, if the event is going to be reworked.

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:29 pm

No can do I'm afraid. By rolling back the turn for a re-run with evacuation I wiped the data - or at least I managed to hide it somewhere I can't find.

Your point about the northern front is a good one though. The Turks and Austrians had made way more headway than their historical counterparts but the treaty line remained historical without "inconveniencing" any of their units.

Altaris
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Re: Explanation please

Fri Jan 05, 2018 1:02 pm

During the signing of the peace event, the CP units are supposed to be moved back to their capital. I will have to look at the event files to see why they may not be doing so, I suspect it's an oversight on some of the areas in Russia being included in the transport area.

I will check it out once back into the swing of things from winter holiday (just got back into town last few days).

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:32 pm

Thanks for that - I wait with bated breath.

Col Ret
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Re: Explanation please

Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:17 pm

Knowingly or unknowingly this does reflect the historical situation in Russia after the signing of the Brest-Litovsk Treaty. Over a million German troops remained in the ceded territory as garrison while the local populations became increasingly upset with the occupation. Dashed Polish expectations of nationhood, Bolshevik subversion, and economic hardship all led to revolt and guerrilla warfare in Poland and throughout the occupation zone. German forces were even called to intervene in Finland, outside the occupation zone, to put down an attempted Bolshevik coup. Also the German High Command was sensitive to the influence of Bolshevik propaganda on the troops in the east and as a result was reluctant to transfer divisions to the Western Front. They were well aware of the rise of socialist/anti-war sentiment at home and the affect these soldiers might have on national morale. While eventually hundreds of thousands of veteran troops were transferred to the Western Front for the 1918 Spring Offensive many remained in the east.
Not sure how many of your units were "destroyed" but the game allows you to redeploy the rest as you wish. Consider it just another challenge.

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:50 am

Excellent point, Col. There's been much mention of the effect that the extra million or so men left "languishing" in the East might have had in the Spring Offensive, and very little of the circumstances that "detained" them.

On the game side of things I'm less forgiving. A problem like this should never have gotten through playtesting and it damages the reputation of a company which I've previously held in the highest esteem.

Altaris
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:53 am

The destruction of the Centrals units in Russia shouldn't occur from the script commands. I've been looking into it trying to determine what exactly causes the situation you've run into. The BlockState command which blocks off the former areas of Russia is supposed to route your troops back to a friendly region.

Out of curiosity, were you really deep in Russian territory when this occurred? I'm wondering if there's a limitation to how far the BlockState command will route troops back.

epaminondas
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:24 am

Thanks for your efforts Alta - yes, very deep. I was on the doorstep of St Petersburg in the North and beyond Sevastopol to the East. But curiously, the units eliminated were in the regions around (and I think including) Volkova, Alekhnova, and Veliki Luki only.

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Nikel
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:24 pm

This is the AGEwiki information on that command, note that only available in the web archive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160920093 ... BlockState


Is this relevant to the problem?

Code: Select all

the game engine attempts to find a valid region within
3 regions distance.  If no valid region is found, the unit(s) will be destroyed

Altaris
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Re: Explanation please

Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:06 pm

Nikel, that may be the case.

Some of the regions do not lock, but instead become absorbed by Centrals (roughly the same areas which became defacto satellites after Brest-Litovsk). Other areas are set to BlockState = 2, which looks like it may destroy units if they aren't close to a friendly region.

This is most likely the scenario you are running into, and it's likely this didn't come into testing as the regions where BlockState gets set to 2 are pretty deep in Russian territory.

So it looks like it is a valid bug, will look at what can be done to correct it. If nothing else, we can probably release it as a beta script fix.

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