AGEOD Forums

Hi. The only AGE game I have played so far is PON and I am considering getting this one. Please can someone tell me how good the naval aspect of the game is? I.e. is it realistic, interesting or just something tacked on to what is really a land warfare game?

Thanks.

It has its merits, but you must consider the historical reality of being skewed against the Central Powers. There are some nice vessels that can do serious damage, but yes, I would say that mostly it's a land game. The CP will have to use subterfuge (raiders and submarines) to reverse the superiority of the Entente. Of course the Russians are weaker still.

Kensai wrote:It has its merits, but you must consider the historical reality of being skewed against the Central Powers. There are some nice vessels that can do serious damage, but yes, I would say that mostly it's a land game. The CP will have to use subterfuge (raiders and submarines) to reverse the superiority of the Entente. Of course the Russians are weaker still.

Is it possible to send the Japanese navy to the North Sea or Mediterranean like a reverse Russo-Japanese war?

I don't think so. But I believe it should be allowed, albeit with major cohesion issues for the Japanese ships (that operate beyond the Pacific). Actually, the same course of action could be applied to the German fleet operating in the Mediterranean and the Austro-Hungarian operating beyond the Mediterranean to fix that as well. We have seen tags for land units that take cohesion penalties when they leave their home regions in other AGEOD games, I don't think it is impossible to implement.

Kensai wrote:I don't think so. But I believe it should be allowed, albeit with major cohesion issues for the Japanese ships (that operate beyond the Pacific). Actually, the same course of action could be applied to the German fleet operating in the Mediterranean and the Austro-Hungarian operating beyond the Mediterranean to fix that as well. We have seen tags for land units that take cohesion penalties when they leave their home regions in other AGEOD games, I don't think it is impossible to implement.

The question would be how the German fleet would get to the Med...

It's easier than you may think. Of course you need to wait for bad weather (winter time) for the detection values to fall. It will make the voyage lengthier but what counts here is not to be intercepted.

Egg Bub wrote:Is it possible to send the Japanese navy to the North Sea or Mediterranean like a reverse Russo-Japanese war?

There is supposed to be a small squadron of Japanese ships in an upcoming
version, but that might have been forgotten. They did send ships to the Med
during the war and they did have an effect on it.

Yes, indeed, we were saying this on beta, I had even found a squadron of Japanese Navy soldiers in the port of Thessaloniki!

Kensai wrote:It's easier than you may think. Of course you need to wait for bad weather (winter time) for the detection values to fall. It will make the voyage lengthier but what counts here is not to be intercepted.

Surely you are not talking about the Channel? Was there not a fleet blocking it at all times?

In my tests I have not found such a fleet. Unless the rival player or AI puts it there. How could a fleet block open sea all the time without losing cohesion anyway?

(a future mechanism for all AGEOD games could be that of a "fleet in being", i.e. a fleet in a port with the special action button intercept pressed so that it could intercept any passing ships that venture one sea region away... in other words it could be as current intercept works, but it could also function when the ships are in port...)

Kensai wrote:In my tests I have not found such a fleet. Unless the rival player or AI puts it there. How could a fleet block open sea all the time without losing cohesion anyway?

(a future mechanism for all AGEOD games could be that of a "fleet in being", i.e. a fleet in a port with the special action button intercept pressed so that it could intercept any passing ships that venture one sea region away... in other words it could be as current intercept works, but it could also function when the ships are in port...)

I think in PON fleets can recover cohesion while stationary at sea, only losing supplies over time. Plus, the Channel is hardly open sea.

It does sound like it would be too easy to play as Germany if the AI does not implement an effective blockade in the North Sea. Is this something the devs would consider adding?

In a current game I am playing, I put the British Channel Fleet in the Channel and set it on intercept. It has been out there for months now without running out of supply or losing too much cohesion. And no bloody Germans have sailed through.

The naval simulation is a little weak and sketchy in all these games. Remember that the ur-game in the AGEOD system is AACW, where pretty much the only naval battles take place in rivers or harbors.

If this is happening, then it is a bug or some other unexplained rule of seaborne resupplying. Ships, even in PON, could not stay forever in the sea without losing cohesion (let alone supplies!), especially in bad weather. Cohesion should get even faster to a low point when the fleet is set in offensive stance.

Given that your fleet will only intercept if in offensive stance (or the rival in offensive stance), simply having in defense a fleet in the Channel should not stop a CP player from passing either the German or Austrian fleet. I am telling you this cause the AI will always have some clairvoyance to "see into your plans" according to the difficulty, so it would be almost impossible to pull it through (unless if it sneaks in really bad weather). But against human players it is relatively easy. Your Channel Fleet will not intercept if the other fleet is in defensive too. A crafty CP player will make a dash in the Channel, passing as fast as possible, avoiding combat, or in bad weather (but it will take some more time).

The intercept button should be doing something different. It means it will get to a nearby sea region if a battle there occurs. But a battle won't occur if you are in defensive/battle unless there is friendly fleet in that nearby sea region that has started the battle or is attacked. This is my understanding, at least. Interception is the sea equivalent to the march-to-the-sound-of-guns. The main difference is that given there is no MC in sea regions, battles won't start unless one of the parties is in offensive mode.

Kensai wrote:If this is happening, then it is a bug or some other unexplained rule of seaborne resupplying. Ships, even in PON, could not stay forever in the sea without losing cohesion (let alone supplies!), especially in bad weather. Cohesion should get even faster to a low point when the fleet is set in offensive stance.

Given that your fleet will only intercept if in offensive stance (or the rival in offensive stance), simply having in defense a fleet in the Channel should not stop a CP player from passing either the German or Austrian fleet. I am telling you this cause the AI will always have some clairvoyance to "see into your plans" according to the difficulty, so it would be almost impossible to pull it through (unless if it sneaks in really bad weather). But against human players it is relatively easy. Your Channel Fleet will not intercept if the other fleet is in defensive too. A crafty CP player will make a dash in the Channel, passing as fast as possible, avoiding combat, or in bad weather (but it will take some more time).

The intercept button should be doing something different. It means it will get to a nearby sea region if a battle there occurs. But a battle won't occur if you are in defensive/battle unless there is friendly fleet in that nearby sea region that has started the battle or is attacked. This is my understanding, at least. Interception is the sea equivalent to the march-to-the-sound-of-guns. The main difference is that given there is no MC in sea regions, battles won't start unless one of the parties is in offensive mode.

I'm pretty sure fleets could be refuelled and resupplied at sea in those days. From what you said it sounds as though the naval aspects of this game could do with some tweaking. One of the main reasons the CP lost was because the German fleet was unable to break the blockade of Germany's ports and there were food shortages etc. Also the Channel is far too narrow a body of water for a large fleet to slip through in real life, so this should be reflected in the game.

Another question: is the German U-Boot campaign featured in To End All Wars?

We have discussed this stuff in the past. It's not too narrow. Ships can pass and they did pass even in WW2. Anyway, the game mechanics allow for a fleet to pass and unfortunately players have done this gamey move of uniting the two fleets of the CP. As far as resupplying in the sea, I am not at all sure, especially for a larger operation.

The U-Boat campaign is featured.

Kensai wrote:We have discussed this stuff in the past. It's not too narrow. Ships can pass and they did pass even in WW2. Anyway, the game mechanics allow for a fleet to pass and unfortunately players have done this gamey move of uniting the two fleets of the CP. As far as resupplying in the sea, I am not at all sure, especially for a larger operation.

The U-Boat campaign is featured.

Surely if Germany is able to blockade the Allies using U-Boots then it would make sense for the Allies to be able to blockade the CPs with surface fleets?

Also, in WW2 the French side was occupied by Germany which made a big difference. In WWI both sides of the Channel were under Allied control.

Egg Bug, what you are talking about is wishful thinking. What I am talking about is how the game is implemented. Also, if or not Germany would have been able to dash a fleet across the Channel was discussed in a previous search and we reached no conclusions as it remains a what if. I say it could be done. You say it won't. We cannot reach a conclusion cause it was never tried. But just because it was never tried does not equate it would have failed.

The fix for this eventuality would be if the mechanism I propose is implemented, ie make fleets intercept from port.

Kensai wrote:Egg Bug, what you are talking about is wishful thinking. What I am talking about is how the game is implemented. Also, if or not Germany would have been able to dash a fleet across the Channel was discussed in a previous search and we reached no conclusions as it remains a what if. I say it could be done. You say it won't. We cannot reach a conclusion cause it was never tried. But just because it was never tried does not equate it would have failed.

The fix for this eventuality would be if the mechanism I propose is implemented, ie make fleets intercept from port.

Your idea sounds good. However, I am still interested to hear (maybe from devs?) whether there are plans to implement a more significant naval aspect to the game. It sounds to me like, as with so many other strategy games, the naval side of the game is tacked on and incomplete.

P.S. My name is Egg Bub not "Egg Bug". http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Bub

Can the devs please state whether the naval game is an area which is likely to receive attention in patches/DLCs in the future?

Egg Bub wrote:Can the devs please state whether the naval game is an area which is likely to receive attention in patches/DLCs in the future?

Wow this forum is already dead. That was quick.

Holiday I think you'll find....

So Egg Bub, I can tell you this. This is the most realistic portrayal of the naval war in the Great War since the board game, Jutland. However, it is important to remember, this is not a naval game it is a land game. So it is not hit the high seas and win the war. There is a very nice blockade and submarine interface which interact with the land game.
My short take.

Question so if I place my fleet in the Channel with the intercept button will the fleet sortie? Another If I may, do the sea planes work on land or only for naval hexes?

I your looking for an amazing WW1 Tactical computer wargame I would highly recommend JUTLAND by storm studios. EVERY ship UK/Germany/France north sea/channel is represented.

The sea planes will function as scout planes on land. Not sure about if a fleet will sortie from a port if the intercept button is pressed.

Jim-NC wrote: Not sure about if a fleet will sortie from a port if the intercept button is pressed.

Ah ok sir. So place them in a box or hex and they with Intercept in the hex only. Got it.

For me, intercept works into adjacent sea regions.