RGA
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Forces involved overestimated ?

Thu Sep 18, 2014 8:44 pm

If you look at the battle report below you can see the huge number of Russians that were supposed to be involved in this battle in Gumbinnen. Where did this figure come from? It should be about 24,000. I removed all troops from the Russian 1st army apart from the two divisions you can see in the battle report and marched it into Gumbinnen. All other Russian corps in Wladisavov failed their dice rolls to MTSG so the only combatants are the ones you can see on the screen. Is this a bug ?

[ATTACH]31206[/ATTACH]

Also the German division took a couple of hits when retreating but this is not shown on the battle report. Should they be ?
Attachments
gumbinnen.png

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Lynxyonok
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:33 am

Retreat hits are usually subdued unless an entire element is lost.

The battle only lasted a round, other troops did not get a chance to join in.

RGA
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:46 am

I think the figure on the Russian side for the number of troops involved in the battle includes all those that were tested for MTSG even though they all failed this test. Would be better to only include those actually involved in the combat.

In the battle the German division took 2 hits from ranged fire and 4 hits from assault for a total of 6, however they also took 2 hits when retreating which is not record. I checked the elements after the battle and 8 hits had been inflicted so the battle log tallied with actual result. Hits during retreat can be very high especially if the defeated side routs so it would be good if this could be reflected in the report.

Doctor Haider
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:25 am

only two divisions are involved from russian side. They obviously cannot contain almost 150 thousands of men. But the figures include the whole force, even the units not involved in the battle. It's a bug in my opinion.

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Pocus
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:26 pm

The tally includes all forces in the region, committed or not. The units shown are the ones who actually fought only.
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RGA
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:44 pm

Pocus wrote:The tally includes all forces in the region, committed or not. The units shown are the ones who actually fought only.


Hi Pocus, but that is not the case here. The only Russian units in the region of Gumbinnen are the ones that appear on the battle report. All other units of the Russian 1st army where left behind in Wladisavov (by me deliberately) and failed to MTSG. I have save game and log files if needed. Are adjacent regions included ?

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Highlandcharge
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:51 pm

I think even although the units outside the region failed to MTSG they are still included in the overall numbers in the battle report....

Also when a force takes losses when retreating there is a message in the turn log telling you how many hits they took...

RGA
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:04 pm

Highlandcharge wrote:I think even although the units outside the region failed to MTSG they are still included in the overall numbers in the battle report......


Thanks, I'm ok with it as long as I understand what's happening, WAD then, not a bug. So the number you see is what you could potentially have pulled into the fight.

Highlandcharge wrote:Also when a force takes losses when retreating there is a message in the turn log telling you how many hits they took...


I missed that, I'll keep an eye out in future :)

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Highlandcharge
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:09 pm

I believe this is the case with the battle report, you are a good bug finder by the way so keep an eye out just in case :)

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Highlandcharge
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:11 pm

Yes AFAIK this is the case with battle report, you are a good bug finder (arty ROF/ammo bug) so keep an eye out just in case :)

RGA
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Fri Sep 19, 2014 2:21 pm

Highlandcharge wrote:Yes AFAIK this is the case with battle report, you are a good bug finder (arty ROF/ammo bug) so keep an eye out just in case :)


Thanks, I write and debug code for a living so it's second nature. I also like to get under the bonnet, so to speak, and try and understand what's going on. :D

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Pocus
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Sat Sep 20, 2014 5:41 pm

In that case, then yes please do post the saved game as I check the issue, thanks.
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

RGA
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Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:25 pm

Sorry but how do I upload files ? Never done this before.

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Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:18 am

Highlandcharge wrote:I think even although the units outside the region failed to MTSG they are still included in the overall numbers in the battle report....

Also when a force takes losses when retreating there is a message in the turn log telling you how many hits they took...


I don't think all hits when retreating are shown however I need to investigate a bit further.

RGA
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:15 pm

All hits from retreating are not indicated in the turn log. The message that is reported refers to the first unit that retreats for example I saw a message saying my forces had successfully retreated and taken 8 hits. In the battle log was the following.

13:07:15 (Reporting) 4e Corps d'Armée succeeded in retreating
13:07:15 (Reporting) 4e Corps d'Armée will take 8 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
13:07:15 (Reporting) 4e Corps d'Armée is retreating toward Saint Mihiel
13:07:15 (Reporting) Group 4e Corps d'Armée has retreated
13:07:15 (Reporting) Retreat Chance after ROE: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) The retreat chance for 1003307 5e Corps d'Armée is: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) Dice rolled: 30
13:07:15 (Reporting) 5e Corps d'Armée succeeded in retreating
13:07:15 (Reporting) 5e Corps d'Armée will take 8 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
13:07:15 (Reporting) 5e Corps d'Armée is retreating toward Saint Mihiel
13:07:15 (Reporting) Group 5e Corps d'Armée has retreated
13:07:15 (Reporting) Retreat Chance after ROE: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) The retreat chance for 1003288 6e Corps d'Armée is: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) Dice rolled: 21
13:07:15 (Reporting) 6e Corps d'Armée succeeded in retreating
13:07:15 (Reporting) 6e Corps d'Armée will take 9 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
13:07:15 (Reporting) 6e Corps d'Armée is retreating toward Saint Mihiel
13:07:15 (Reporting) Group 6e Corps d'Armée has retreated
13:07:15 (Reporting) Retreat Chance after ROE: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) The retreat chance for 1003248 Troisieme Armee is: 73 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) Dice rolled: 38
13:07:15 (Reporting) Troisieme Armee succeeded in retreating
13:07:15 (Reporting) Troisieme Armee will take 11 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
13:07:15 (Reporting) Troisieme Armee is retreating toward Saint Mihiel
13:07:15 (Reporting) Group Troisieme Armee has retreated
13:07:15 (Reporting) Retreat Chance after ROE: 53 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) The retreat chance for 1003124 Deuxieme Armee is: 53 %
13:07:15 (Reporting) Dice rolled: 1
13:07:15 (Reporting) Deuxieme Armee succeeded in retreating
13:07:15 (Reporting) Deuxieme Armee will take 21 hits while retreating (though no hits can be done on round 0)
13:07:15 (Reporting) Deuxieme Armee is retreating toward Val de Moselle
13:07:15 (Reporting) Group Deuxieme Armee has retreated


Only the first unit was mentioned.

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Kensai
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:37 pm

I wish we could have a more easy to read log for the future. But this is an immense job, probably not connected to any particular AGEOD game. It should be on the engine. There is a lot of worth in these logs but they are difficult to parse and study. When I "debug a battle result" and try to understand what went wrong, I always lose myself in the way this valuable information is presented.
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Highlandcharge
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 1:40 pm

So the log message is only telling you the retreat hits for the first corps, are the other corps showing the damage from the retreat as stated in the log?

RGA
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Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:30 pm

Highlandcharge wrote:So the log message is only telling you the retreat hits for the first corps, are the other corps showing the damage from the retreat as stated in the log?


I don't have that save any more but I don't see why they wouldn't take damage as indicted in the log. I can do another test.

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