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Templer
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Battle Planner and Battle Aftermath - No Flags for Nationality

Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:53 pm

No flags this time in the battle planner and in the battle aftermath this time?
That's a bug?
Or WAD?? :grr:
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Templer

vonRocko
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:57 pm

Does the battle planner come up more than it does in Civil war2? I rarely see it in that game.

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Pocus
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:10 pm

There is generally no doubt about the identity of the 2 protagonists. For example here:

Image
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Templer
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:25 pm

Pocus wrote:There is generally no doubt about the identity of the 2 protagonists. For example here:

Image

But they fight and die for their country!
And countries are represented with a flag!

To me it seems as if AGEOD increasingly rationalized away more and more beautiful additions.
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Templer

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Pocus
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:27 pm

Compare the NATO display of WIA and this one and you can admit this one is prettier!

I see several small flags though. It is true that by lack of room we did not show a big one, but check the leaders, they bear small flags. Also some battle are multinationals. Which one to show in this case? You get the uniforms of each soldier now, you see you get French versus German easily I believe.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Tamas
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:29 pm

Ignoring the indication of the region the battle is taking place in, the indication of which country won the battle, the name of the commanding generals, the uniforms of the soldiers, the unit names, I am still counting ten national flags on that screenshot. ;)
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Templer
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:36 pm

Pocus wrote:Compare the NATO display of WIA and this one and you can admit this one is prettier!

I see several small flags though. It is true that by lack of room we did not show a big one, but check the leaders, they bear small flags. Also some battle are multinationals. Which one to show in this case? You get the uniforms of each soldier now, you see you get French versus German easily I believe.

Some good points but I am not convinced.

War is always between countries, between nations! It's about nationality.
A line from a German song from the "dark ages": "unsere Fahne flattert uns voran..." (Our flag flutters in front of us....).

I am sorry, on this I am not happy with your design decision. :crying:
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Templer

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Templer
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 3:43 pm

Pocus wrote:... Also some battle are multinationals. Which one to show in this case?

On this...
As I have noted elsewhere: AGEOD people are talented, imaginative, creative people!
Find a solution!
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Templer

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FroBodine
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:13 pm

I have to agree with Templer here. An overall flag, maybe behind the large general's head, would be very helpful.

As someone who is not a PhD in WW1, I don't know the difference in uniforms, and names of generals (although I could figure out some maybe).

My second question is - what do all the troops and icons underneath them mean, please? Do the troops, guns, etc shown in the different lines show how many of each died? So, for example the 17e corps on the left side shows four infantry icons and four artillery icons. What do these icons mean?
What does the 2-1-1 mean?

What does the 85 (-6) mean?

What does the 607 (-127) mean?

And, what do all the icons underneath the troops mean, please? Different colored crosshairs, stars, black blocks with an arrow, nine dots in a square. What is all this?

Thank you from a newbie who REALLY wants this game, but I also want to understand what the heck is going on in this battle results screen.

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Shri
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:23 pm

The blue is the FRENCH - very obvious
The BRITISH are RED
GERMANS- Field Grey
Austrians - White.
Most world war one enthusiasts know this i believe.

As for the combat.. .
4 infantry icons - is 2 divisions, each division is 2 brigades.
4 artillery is - literally 4 field artillery brigades attached to those divisions. (each regular division of 2 brigades has 1 integral artillery has 1 artillery brigade attached)
The -6 represents 6 hits suffered by the Korps.

As for the remaining, please play the game- they are well explained by tool tips in-game.

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FroBodine
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 5:33 pm

Thank you, Shri. Very helpful, if a little condescending. As I said, I am not a WW1 enthusiast. I'm just a fan of good strategy games.

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Philippe
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 7:46 pm

One could do worse than spending a little time leafing through Osprey books. It's amazing how many of your preconceptions will come crashing down in the face of a little research.

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Shri
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:35 pm

FroBodine wrote:Thank you, Shri. Very helpful, if a little condescending. As I said, I am not a WW1 enthusiast. I'm just a fan of good strategy games.


Well, didn't really want to sound condescending but more to convey the information.
I feel most terminology is well explained in the game.

I would make 2 suggestions-
1. Read a summary of WW1 on Wikipedia or some generic site- may help a bit.
2. Buy the game and play the tutorial and Tannenberg scenario (both sides) at least 5-6 times, only then play the main game. Now why do i say this- there are things like supply, which is a bit of an abstract concept if you are not into military history. The tutorial and scenarios are small and limited and give a player a feel about the game and help him understand basics of combat, supply, troop make-up, etc. Once you play them some generic information will be clear to you like- why it is more useful to have more troops, more guns in a battle, why it is useful to move troops using Railways and not 'force marching' them etc.

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caranorn
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 8:54 pm

Templer wrote:Some good points but I am not convinced.

War is always between countries, between nations! It's about nationality.
A line from a German song from the "dark ages": "unsere Fahne flattert uns voran..." (Our flag flutters in front of us....).

I am sorry, on this I am not happy with your design decision. :crying:


This is a bit off topic, but can't ignore this as it's doubly wrong.

1) Of course wars need not be between countries or nations. Just look at the situation these days, Ukraine is a Civil War, so is Syria, while Iraq was originally an invasion it also involves a civil war. Medieval warfare was also largely feudal and did not involve nations or countries.

2) First I will have to ask, how do you define the "dark ages"? Obviously the language of "unsere Fahne flattert uns voran..." is in no way medieval, but possibly it's a modern transcription. In any case, if your comment is supposed to deal in things medieval I have to disapoint you. In no way does that quote relate to a country or nation, medieval armies were organised along feudal lines and men were following the banner of their lord, in other words one side in battle could have a hundred different banners.

Back to the topic, in my first battle in EAW I also briefly wondered which was my side of the battle report (German leader of I expect Huguenot descent, luckily It was the east front and the Russian commander was easy to spot). No need for graphic identification, but maybe a single line of text (Western Entente, Central Powers, Eastern Entente) would be helpful...
Marc aka Caran...

StephenT
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:01 pm

Perhaps the little flags that appear on the anonymous leader 'portraits' could also be added to the genuine historical portraits as well? Put them behind the main image so they don't obscure it, but you should still be able to see part of the flag peeping through.

wosung
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:09 pm

Great ideas about UI chrome, guys.

And btw, if the seize of the flag in the battle planner is the major point of irritation, well that's not a bad thing, isn't it?

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Tamas
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:11 pm

If this seems to be a regular request, we will most definitely look into what we can do about it. :)
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Owl
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:15 pm

caranorn wrote:No need for graphic identification, but maybe a single line of text (Western Entente, Central Powers, Eastern Entente) would be helpful...


This does sound like an elegant solution if flags have been left out due to cluttering considerations, imho.

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Templer
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Tue Aug 26, 2014 10:20 pm

Tamas wrote:If this seems to be a regular request, we will most definitely look into what we can do about it. :)

After the steril Civil War II UI, AGEOD reminds its strengths in the field of graphic and artwork again.
Now please go all the way!

And find the best solution - not the fastest. :)
Greetings

Templer

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FroBodine
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Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:45 am

I have been reading all these forum threads today. Some battle results screens do not show any flag at all, like the naval results. I think adding a flag somewhere to identify the major powers in each battle is essential to every battle results screen.

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H Gilmer3
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Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:57 am

Yeah, that could be adjusted, but I know who my naval guys are and they are kicking heinie!

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fred zeppelin
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Wed Aug 27, 2014 2:59 am

When you get into battles in some of the more obscure areas of the map, especially where the armies have no generals, it can be difficult, even for those to who know the war pretty well, to quickly determine who is fighting who. Flags would be ideal. Or at least text.

Lord Nelson
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Wed Aug 27, 2014 4:05 am

Flags or not, the battle results screen is still the most beautiful of it's kind I've seen in an AGEOD game, though the most recent title I've played was Napoleon's Campaigns.

jnpoint
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Wed Aug 27, 2014 8:24 am

fred zeppelin wrote:When you get into battles in some of the more obscure areas of the map, especially where the armies have no generals, it can be difficult, even for those to who know the war pretty well, to quickly determine who is fighting who. Flags would be ideal. Or at least text.


+1 (To me it seems to be a regular request :) )

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