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Le Ricain
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War is Declared

Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:57 am

The 28th of July was the 100th anniversary of the outbreak of WWI, when the Austro-Hungarian Empire declared war on Serbia. Local war or European war? That is the question.

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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'

Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Ace
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Picture of telegram received by Serbia 100 years ago with the Declaration of war...

Tue Jul 29, 2014 12:20 pm

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Pocus
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:31 pm

Why it is written in French, because this was the expected diplomatic language?
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

sandman2575
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:48 pm

Pocus wrote:Why it is written in French, because this was the expected diplomatic language?


Yes. The "lingua franca" of continental Europe, before it was displaced later in the 20th century by English and German.

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Pocus
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:59 pm

Ah, good old time ;)
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Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Kensai
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:08 pm

en état de guerre :p ouet:
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
Großdeutschland Mod
Are you tough enough to impersonate the Shogun and defy the Westerners? Prove it:
Shogun Defiance Mod (completed AAR)

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havi
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:25 pm

For god and kaiser destroy the slavs... :wacko:

elxaime
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:26 pm

Hmm...our family will vacation in Belgium through August. Should we cancel? Thoughts?

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Ace
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Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:35 pm

havi wrote:For god and kaiser destroy the slavs... :wacko:

Lot of Slavs fought for the Kaiser :turc:

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HerrDan
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:24 am

elxaime wrote:Hmm...our family will vacation in Belgium through August. Should we cancel? Thoughts?


Haha that was the best one so far! :mdr:
"Das Glück hilft dem Kühnen."

German Empire PON 1880 AAR:http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?35152-German-Empire-not-quite-an-AAR

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havi
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:48 am

Yep i did mean yugoslavs...

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Ace
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:53 am

Little history lesson. There was no yugoslav nation, it was a multinational state, the same way Habsurg empire was a multinational state.

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marek1978
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:22 am

havi wrote:For god and kaiser destroy the slavs... :wacko:


Oh mate, how can you be saying something like that....

so many slavs fought for the monarchy, dont forget that Vienna gouvement had ministers from Slavic countrys

and as for me - polish - being a part of voluntary units fighting with austria hungary was seen as patriotic posture leading to creating poland as a third part of the monarchy...

after Princip killed Archduke there were riots in Sarajevo - with croats and muslims ( slaves) atacking Serbs

and belive me - most of Poles hate the pan-slavic ideas as being seen (fairly or not) as proxy of russian nationalism
the other thing is that ethnicity and languege does not always define your identity, my family is partly german, partly jewish, partly polish so i would go mad trying to define myself based on the ethicity

to give you example - grandfather of the polish prime minister was drafted to german army in 1942 to end war serving in the polish army.....

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Le Ricain
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:25 am

Ace wrote:Lot of Slavs fought for the Kaiser :turc:


Technically speaking, many Slavs fought for Franz Joseph I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. Not so many fought for the Kaiser.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Le Ricain
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:31 am

elxaime wrote:Hmm...our family will vacation in Belgium through August. Should we cancel? Thoughts?


Is this not what Herr Moltke asked his wife?
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Ebbingford
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:38 am

When ever I read the title of this thread I can't help adding "and battle come down" in my head. It must be the old punk in me :cool:

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"Umbrellas will not be opened in the presence of the enemy." Duke of Wellington before the Battle of Waterloo, 1815.

"Top hats will not be worn in the Eighth Army" Field-Marshal Viscount Montgomery of Alamein K.G.


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Ace
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:42 am

Le Ricain wrote:Technically speaking, many Slavs fought for Franz Joseph I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. Not so many fought for the Kaiser.


I thought Kaiser is German word meaning Emperor.

So Franz Joseph would be also Kaiser...

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marek1978
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:09 am

Le Ricain wrote:Technically speaking, many Slavs fought for Franz Joseph I, Emperor of Austria and King of Hungary. Not so many fought for the Kaiser.



Well if you recal Erich Maria Remarque's book - Nothing new on the West Front - there is this moment in the hospital when guy called Lewandowski is having sex with his wife ....
in the book - they are whispering in polish with each other

so they would be slavs serving for Wilhems - german Kaiser...

saying all of this i must say my grandfather managed to serve in :
russian imperial army - swithing to polish voluntary unit - swithching to white guard - switching to polish regural....

but my favourite story about difrent familis fighting in difrent armies is the one that my father told me - back in 1967 he was working in south western polish region called slask - where there is a strong mixture of polish and german culture
he was working with the guy who was only one to survive world war 2 form five siblings
he himself was drafted to german army in 1944 - when he was 17, joined luftwaffe , was shot down over western europe
his two older brothers died in the eastern front fighting in german army
while his sister and other brother were executed by gestapo because being part of the polish military conspiracy ....

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havi
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:19 am

Yes i know that Yugoslavia wasn't there yet but those Serb-natiolastics want to make great-Serbia and they have name it yugoslavia then it was their idea same as the blackhand organization... And the second thing Austria-Hungarians had made they mind to destroy Serbia they made so harsh offer o peace to them and even when Serbs accepted it they still came down and attacked them. So I think then kaiser Franz was going to destroy Slavs or I mean their state of Serbia, no nazi-ideology for me just trying to b ironic what failed. By the way do u know 2 greatest thing what Austrian had made? They have all world thinking that Beethoven was Austrian and hitler where German.

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:51 am

havi wrote:And the second thing Austria-Hungarians had made they mind to destroy Serbia they made so harsh offer o peace to them and even when Serbs accepted it they still came down and attacked them.


That is another myth. Ultimatum had harsh terms, but the Serbs made a myth that they accepted it. They accepted all demands except the one for Austrian police investigating on Serbian soil who was responsible for the Assassination.

Imagine in today terms, that US small neighbor (let's for the sake of argument say Cuba) was responsible for harboring terrorist organization responsible for assassinating No2 man in the Country. And Cuba denying FBI conducting investigation on Cuban soil.
What do you all think the outcome would be?


havi wrote:By the way do u know 2 greatest thing what Austrian had made? They have all world thinking that Beethoven was Austrian and hitler where German.


Good one... :mdr:

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:21 am

True.

The Serbs and Russians are equally if not more responsible for the war as the 2 Kaisers of Austria and Germany.
Unfortunately as Napoleon said- History is written by the Victors; hence- Germany is an evil nation and Serbia, Russia and France are white angels.

BTW- Alsace Lorraine was part of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE (GERMAN EMPIRE in central Europe, Roman was not at all true) for over 500 years before Louis XIV snatched it and Napoleon III snatched Nice from Sardinia (Italy) but both of these annexations are not called bad.

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havi
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:33 am

Yes ace i think u r right (again) it is probaly so. Isnt the arcduke murder ordered by Serbian secret police?

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:20 pm

havi wrote:Isnt the arcduke murder ordered by Serbian secret police?


No, it wasn't ordered by Serbian secret police, and it didn't had any official ties to Serbian government. It was done by terrorist organization that had loose links to influential people in the Serbian government. Notice the difference - it was not state sponsored, but to prosecute those individuals that did sponsor it would be impossible for the Serbian government.
So, they proposed that instead allowing foreign police access, they would conduct their own investigation - the one where they could do damage control.
I don't think Serbia wanted war (I am pretty sure opposite is true), but some of its officials were. The same can be said for the Austrians.

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Le Ricain
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:26 pm

Shri wrote:True.

The Serbs and Russians are equally if not more responsible for the war as the 2 Kaisers of Austria and Germany.
Unfortunately as Napoleon said- History is written by the Victors; hence- Germany is an evil nation and Serbia, Russia and France are white angels.

BTW- Alsace Lorraine was part of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE (GERMAN EMPIRE in central Europe, Roman was not at all true) for over 500 years before Louis XIV snatched it and Napoleon III snatched Nice from Sardinia (Italy) but both of these annexations are not called bad.


it is not just history that is written by the victors. They also write the 'facts'. In the Versailles treaty, Germany accepted she was responsible for starting WWI. I agree that Russia had much more to do with the war's start than Germany.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Le Ricain
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:31 pm

Ace wrote:I thought Kaiser is German word meaning Emperor.

So Franz Joseph would be also Kaiser...


You may be correct, but in English the term Kaiser is reserved for the German Emperor. I may be wrong, but I do not think that anyone thought of the Austrian Emperor when you claimed that lots of Slavs fought for the Kaiser.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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marek1978
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 2:57 pm

Ace wrote:No, it wasn't ordered by Serbian secret police, and it didn't had any official ties to Serbian government. It was done by terrorist organization that had loose links to influential people in the Serbian government. Notice the difference - it was not state sponsored, but to prosecute those individuals that did sponsor it would be impossible for the Serbian government.
So, they proposed that instead allowing foreign police access, they would conduct their own investigation - the one where they could do damage control.
I don't think Serbia wanted war (I am pretty sure opposite is true), but some of its officials were. The same can be said for the Austrians.


There is a fantastic book by an australian author living in germany - hisotry of the begiining of the war .
It is actually quite actual as german foreign secretary - Frank Walter Steinmeier hosted a panel discussion with the author and german chancelor - Angela Merkel is said to like that book - both of them being very influenced by the way the autor tells the story. Some people belive that Merkel and Steinmaier are afraid to make such a mistakes as european leaders did 100 yeras ago - and thats the reason why they are so moderate in dealing with Putins russia.

This books give a really great wiev in reletion beetwen black hand and serbia .
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2013/jul/19/sleepwalkers-christopher-clark-review

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Shri
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Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:48 pm

Le Ricain wrote:it is not just history that is written by the victors. They also write the 'facts'. In the Versailles treaty, Germany accepted she was responsible for starting WWI. I agree that Russia had much more to do with the war's start than Germany.


My friend, it was written at 'CANNON Point and BLOCKADE point' hardly equal or free!

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Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:59 pm

" You may be correct, but in English the term Kaiser is reserved for the German Emperor. I may be wrong, but I do not think that anyone thought of the Austrian Emperor when you claimed that lots of Slavs fought for the Kaiser. "

Most of us are not Anglo Saxons and Kaiser meaning Emperor ; if a Kaiser has lot of Slavs this is Franz Joseph of Austria with Poles, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats and Czech. :thumbsup:

I have ended reading recently "A Mad Catastrophe " about the Austrian Army up to April 1915 and is a very good book.

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Le Ricain
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Thu Jul 31, 2014 7:52 am

Florent wrote:" You may be correct, but in English the term Kaiser is reserved for the German Emperor. I may be wrong, but I do not think that anyone thought of the Austrian Emperor when you claimed that lots of Slavs fought for the Kaiser. "

Most of us are not Anglo Saxons and Kaiser meaning Emperor ; if a Kaiser has lot of Slavs this is Franz Joseph of Austria with Poles, Slovaks, Serbs, Croats and Czech. :thumbsup:

I have ended reading recently "A Mad Catastrophe " about the Austrian Army up to April 1915 and is a very good book.


I, and the rest of the English speaking world, stand corrected.

I have recently completed reading the book referenced by marek1978, "Sleepwalkers - How Europe Went to War in 1914" by Christopher Clark. It really is an excellent book and I highly recommend it.
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'Nous voilà, Lafayette'



Colonel C.E. Stanton, aide to A.E.F. commander John 'Black Jack' Pershing, upon the landing of the first US troops in France 1917

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Shri
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Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:05 pm

Kaiser is in German what Tsar is in Russian and other Slavic Languages, both are derived from the word- CEASER from Julius Ceaser.
So, Austria and HRE also had Kaisers and had them for a very long time, the Habsburgs ruled for nearly a thousand years, about 4 times the history of USA. Please keep that in mind.

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