AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Fri Jan 08, 2021 10:30 pm

As follow up, it looks like Model 873 is both the 3 star 5-5-2 version of Nathan Forrest and the new Robert Garnett so I can fix that on my end.

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Fri Jan 08, 2021 11:00 pm

It's looking like the 'TUID Object List is Redundant' is due to objects not being replaced while pasting your mod. The objects dont have the same names, so they dont replace. I dont know if it's because you have the vanilla game and I have the DLC, or if it's because youve shifted a lot of the generals around. In any case, I'm deleting any conflicting models if theyre not from your mod. Most are clearly the same unit with a different name - eg a middle initial added or subtracted.

grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:18 am

New distro attached.

I'm going to have to make a step by step program for myself so I don't keep messing it up.

There is at least one problem with the 0.2 distro. The model and unit names that I've generated are different names that the originals, so they don't get overwritten when they are copied to their respective directories. My sincere apologies, I should have been paying closer attention. I forgot about the file names being generated from the general names, almost all of which I have updated.

The short answer to the problem is that the model and unit folders in the mod folder should have been completely emptied before the distro is installed. Alternately the folders themselves can be deleted from the mod folder because the mod distro will recreate them. The new installation instructions include a step for this in the correct order.

OK, tell me a few things here. I'm not trying to be insulting with these questions, I just don't know your familiarity with the game. Some or all of this you may already know.

I'm not using the Steam version, so I don't know if there's a difference in the folder structure. I assumed there was not, but I could be wrong. I don't suppose there's any way you can send me either a screenshot of the complete folder structure of the Steam version or a directory list of your Steam install piped to a text file? The latter would be better. If you aren't familiar with redirecting screen input I can send instructions for it, it's really simple.

Did you install the mod to a separate mod folder?

Did you delete the model and unit cache files? It sounds like you have, but I'm asking just to cover the bases.

Can you send me a copy of your !Main log.txt file from a game where you're getting the errors, and the most recent script report?

I think it's just a screwup on my end, but if there were additional models and units distributed as part of a vendor DLC, that could cause a problem. It would only cause a problem in a few cases. It would have to be a significant number of files depending on which type. ALT02 has only three additional models but over 150 additional units. There should be 875 files in the distro's model folder, with the last model being 873 for Robert Garnett. The distro's unit folder should have 1,366 files, with the last unit being 1364 for the Corcoran Legion. The respective alias files should also reflect those numbers.

The first distro for 0.2 had the wrong number files. It also included cache files that it shouldn't have. I have verified the correct number this time :bonk:, rebuilt the distro. I've also updated the installation instructions. I really appreciate the feedback.
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AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sat Jan 09, 2021 12:53 am

I can post more thoroughly tomorrow. At the moment I'm out and on my phone.

I believe the Steam directory is the same as standard (it matched up fine with your install instructions at least) but I'll get you the directory file to double check.

I created the mod folder, edited the modpath file and deleted the cache files. Im actually a bit irritated with myself for not catching the duplicate general issue earlier. I reinstalled my game twice and the mod twice for what was an easy fix. Instead I just played through Garnett being a 3 star and sharing a unit number with Forrest. It's hard to object to a free 5-5-2 3 star in 1861. "Wow, didnt know he was that good"

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sat Jan 09, 2021 11:07 pm

A few notes:

1.) Not sure why but I didn't see any script error logs anywhere. I checked in both scripts in the main and the mod folders, and the log folders as well. If they're elsewhere, lmk. I do have error logging turned on in settings.

2.) Attached is the directory listing requested, along with screenshots I took of the script error messages in-game.

3.) I had no load errors after deleting the vanilla copies of models and units from the mod directory. I think the 3 generals I originally had at the tail end of my Models folder (3 star Forrest, a 3 star Cleburne, and a 2 star Ben Mcculloch) were remnants of a generals mod I had played awhile ago and aren't part of the vanilla or the dlc, so I dont think subtracting them hurts any campaigns. And obviously the redundant generals are gone.
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grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:17 am

Assuming you're using a recent version of Windows, they put the host and error logs by default in documents\my games\cw2\ and then there's a folder in there for the base game plus any mod folders you've run it under.

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sun Jan 10, 2021 1:12 pm

Here goes
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grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:31 pm

That helps. So far those are just typos or syntax errors on my part. I've corrected them for the next release.

... but the distro is still missing a file that's now used to unblock Kentucky, so although the events will fire that unlock the forces and allow recruitment, KY won't unlock until I get the next release out, which might be this weekend. If you want to keep playing with it, I can upload that one file, it'll go in with the rest of the events, doesn't require the scenario to be recompiled.

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sun Jan 10, 2021 11:52 pm

Yes I'd love it.

Im liking the feel of the mod. Texas briefly became a theatre, which was interesting. The Union forces that start outside El Paso decided to bypass and just Fort hop east after the Sam Houston event fired. Not a huge problem but definitely a new wrinkle Im not used to.

I feel like I have more resources than normal, but it might just be that Im not forced into buying 6lbers I dont want.

MO/AR has a nice feel as CSA both game-wise and historically. A ton of militia, hard to organize and messy for awhile, but the manpower was there early on.

grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:26 am

The file should be attached.

I'm glad you're enjoying it. I'd classify it as a hot mess at the moment. In the long term, I'd like to place the 1st year's forces and let the player do the rest of the recruiting. The AI might have to have some help there, we'll see.

From what I've read, the forces in Missouri were initially involved in conflicts along the river west of St Louis: Boonville, Lexington, Liberty, etc. But the game has always presented it as if those battles were already lost by Price, who has fled to Arkansas. Eventually I'd like to have the Stl Louis Massacre event spawn Lyon about where he normally does, but Price would be west of Jeff.City, with unorganized militia scattered.

There's lots of thing I'd like to do, especially with leaders. Instead of spawning Grant, Pope, Rosecrans et al at the higher ranks, I'd spawn them as brigadiers and make them earn it, and the chance to bite it. I'd like to base leader spawning on the cliques that existed. For example, McPherson and Wilson got to their rank partially based on ability and partially because they road Grant's coattails. If he dies as a brigadier, do they ever reach that rank?

In the game it might be something more like if Grant is elevated to army command, his generals appear sooner rather than later. If he dies or takes longer to get promotion himself, it forces the player to work with what leaders they have, and as those leaders gain seniority pts they'll be above somebody like McPherson. Things like that, the provisional leader system, different ranking structure for the factions, multiple native American factions to keep the Dakota War separate from Apache raiding separate from conflict in Indian territory, and so on.

One thing at a time, though.
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grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Mon Jan 11, 2021 9:40 pm

After you mentioned it I started looking for a difference in the resource totals between vanilla and ALT02. I did notice a discrepancy so I ran the vanilla and modded games from campaign start until turn 14 (Oct '61). The game was run with no moves (other than taking Ft.Sumter), AI off, automated replacements off, historical attrition standard.

The difference between the two sets of resources is not significant.

USA vanilla/ALT02
turn 10
money 4222/4205 WS 1550/1544
turn 14
money 5731/5665 WS 2126/2104 CS 1509/1495

CSA vanilla/ALT02
turn 10
money 2025/2018 WS 405/403
turn 14
money 2835/2778 WS 570/567 CS 1072/1072

ALT02 actually produces slightly fewer resources than vanilla over the same set of turns. As you noted, ALT02 doesn't force you to pay for artillery or cavalry just to get infantry on the board. I hadn't considered that would leave such a potential surplus, and I might have to deal with it in some way. There are a number of ways to approach it. Under vanilla when new volunteers units are placed on the board by event there's no cost to the faction; in fact there's often a resource boost to go along with it. During the first year the forcepool for each faction is added to at least three times, and every one of those events includes additional resources. Ships have always been underpriced relative to other units, and those could be reevaluated.

I'll look at getting that sorted after I've completed work on the forcepool structure and unit placement.

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Tue Jan 12, 2021 9:14 am

Thanks for the KY file :)

On the resource situation,

1.) The CSA is really the only side which benefits. The Union already had a fair number of non mixed recruiting options, and their bottleneck in 61 is leadership regardless of resource tweaks. That said, if you're a Union player vs CSA Athena, the CSA boost might spice things up a bit. The difficulty buffs Athena gets, as far as I know, are basically centered around movement, activation, and winning battles she shouldn't, which are transparently gamey. Resource buffs are a nice backdoor way to give her a hand. I find that Athena, even as the Union, fails to heavily industrialize.

2.) I dont PBEM, but from what I understand, there are two main issues which give Union players 90% of the wins:
A.) The CSA Coastline is indefensible, especially in Texas
B.) Grant is both easily promotable and very good

You've indirectly assisted the CSA with A, as players will be able to afford a few extra units and have some new unit spawns. It's not, by any means, enough to hold the coast with, but players can probably more effectively garrison a major port or two.

You're working on Grant by making him less easily promotable. I actually went the other route by nerfing him (I didn't see anything at Shiloh, Cold Harbor, or Paducah to justify more than a 6-2-1 with Reckless, although I left his positive traits), but regardless it's a fix especially given your fix could delay or eliminate some solid division/corps commanders.

As far as singleplayer/trying to get a historical feel, my suggestion might be to eliminate some CSA Arsenal/Powder Mill etc options. If the "extra" resources are spent on a few CSA garrisons in 61, and the Union outclasses them in 62 anyway, then all is well and you've just extended the CSA's lifespan a bit. If the CSA player does something overly gamey and catches up industry then things might look a bit silly.

Just my 2 cents. Again, loving the mod thus far.

AACW3Plz
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Wed Jan 13, 2021 1:46 pm

I think your suspicion that Athena might not adapt to the shifted forcepool was accurate.

As CSA, I had rough parity with the Union by the start of 62, and now in mid 62 I outnumber them (their combat power is 105 but minus garrisons thats probably 90-95).

Casualties have been lopsided but not particularly heavy. There were no 'Union attacks max entrenched-stack behind a river and-loses 50k at once' mishaps that Athena seems fond of.

I have noticed that Im fighting less in WV. I dont know if you tweaked that or it just worked out that way, but it's nice not seeing 800 power commands stuck in muddy mountains fighting over inconsequential towns.

grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:16 am

Re: AI's adjustment to force pool, I haven't ,really gotten to it yet directly. The latest changes have involved swapping generic volunteer brigades for historical units. Things like forces that Banks built up for a division after Patterson's army's enlistments expired, or Dix's command in Maryland, or Butler's Dept. of VA with several regiments based at Ft Monroe instead of a single arty battery. Later I hope to make several of these forces AI specific, so the player will have to build them or whatever else they want instead. As it's coming together right now, the forces available to USA will build up fairly quickly, but they'll still be lots of militia types, and the leader load out will be weak sisters until the beginning of spring in '62. No more 2-star Hamilton and Milroy out of the gate. Instead stuck with the political generals, and even considering locking several of them until after historical date of 1st Bull Run, making McDowell the highest ranking 1-star(!) Instead of 3-star. Forces AI to use him instead of other options that I think just confuse it. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

I don't remember tweaking WV yet, but since the forces ther changed a bit, that might have had an effect. This time round I placed a huge nerf on the USA AI interest in New England. It might still build ships there but I hope it doesn't camp leaders et al there.

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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:42 pm

I just dont think I realized how bad the AI was in the base game. The spawns of high morale unique brigades and such are less for historical accuracy and more an Athena crutch.

This explains their design decision for higher difficulties to get battle bonuses rather than extra resources. The AI wouldnt know what to do with the resources.

grimjaw
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Re: Forcepool mod, WIP screenshots

Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:40 am

Sad, isn't it? I can see where things were tweaked to try to help the AI, but they don't end up being much help at all. At some point the devs seem to have thrown in the towel. The game is hyped as being great as player vs player, but it has all these leftover AI nerfs and quirks in the models and events that can't be gotten rid of easily.

There are AI affinities toward stacks defined in the game settings, but the alias file needed to implement them for models didn't ship with the game nor any subsequent patch. There are also agents, but they weren't implemented and I don't think they were fully developed.

I believe affinities have limited usefulness anyway. From what I can tell, the engine will build a stack, and the leader affinity will draw it to that stack depending on the composition. That seems to indicate that leaders play very little role in AI building stacks. Unless the leader is an army/corps leader, maybe.

I am experimenting with giving the AI a direction. I've defined a new affinity for militia and assigned it to Robert Patterson, who spawns with a bunch of militia anyway. I'm going to assign him an agent that I hope will direct him to Winchester, VA, and then to Harrisburg. The idea would be for him to capture Winchester with his militia and then head back with his force so they would be in the clear when they muster out. We'll see how that goes.

It's not enough to define something like a cavalry affinity for leaders. A large stack of cav units might then attract leaders like moths to a flame. The cav leader ability bonuses don't stack, and having multiple cav leaders in a stack, while historically accurate, is a waste of talent. It might be best to assign a power affinity to cav leaders, which would lead to the AI limiting their deployment to one per stack.

I spent alot of time this past week getting Union forces shaped up, hope in the next two days to upload something playable.

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