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Leibst
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Mixed Brigades

Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:20 pm

I think is a good idea to write how Mixed Brigades are represented in the game just to clarify things.

At the start of the game the Republican main infantry element is the militia. There lots of units formed with them, some units with up to 4 milita battalions inside.
[ATTACH]24459[/ATTACH]

Starting October the Republican player can buy this option that creates the Popular Army:
[ATTACH]24461[/ATTACH]
If you buy it then in the next turn will appear a new unit in the game, the Mixed Brigade. There are two types of Mixed Brigades in the game, one is formed with 1 transmission element and up to 4 milita inf. battalions (Militia Mixed Brigade), a second formed with 1 transmission element and up to 4 regular inf. battalions.
After buying the option appear several empty Mixed Brigades in their historical cities. But they are empty Brigades because they are being formed. You can feed them with militia replacements or merge with them militia battalions already in the map.
In this way you will have a unit of 4 command points cost but with 4 infantry battalions inside.

Here you see the Mixed Brigade being merged with a militia unit.
[ATTACH]24460[/ATTACH]

Just to add that you as Republican can also buy the Decisions 'Militia Mixed Brigade' or 'Mixed Brigade' in an owned city to have new empty Mixed Brigades for your army.
Attachments
Opt_REP_CreacionEjercitoPopular.png
Mixed Brigade.JPG
mdl_REP_Mil1.png
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anibal barca
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:07 pm

hola,hacia mucho que no posteaba en el foro y me he llevado una grata sorpresa con este mod,que se prevee una gran obra de arte. :thumbsup:
supongo que muchos que jugamos con los juegos ageod lo hacemos en gran medida por que nos gusta que los juegos sean lo mas fieles posibles históricamente.
los juegos ageod cumplen con eso a través de eventos,unidades,personajes y demás.
quisiera preguntarte si las unidades de ambos bandos son históricas y están limitadas,quiero decir que no podras crear por ejemplo unidades de legionarios ilimitadas de forma arcade,que tendrán un limite histórico con nombres de las unidades históricas y asi en todo los tipos de unidades incluida las unidades aéreas y las unidades navales.
preguntarte si durante la campaña hay eventos históricos exclusivos para cada bando y si son bastantes,para que enriquezcan y den guion,inmersion y profundidad a la campaña.
también me gustaría saber si el tipo de armamento y vehículos como artillería,camiones,aviones y tanques son también históricos con el correspondiente dibujo correcto de unidad de ese tipo de vehiculo o armamento.
gracias y decirte que enorabuena por este mod que es un juego en si y para mi gusto mas interesante que el propio revolution under siege,un trabajo digno de admiración.

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Leibst
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:13 pm

He tratado de ser lo mas fiel posible a la historia si. Las unidades de la Legión son históricas, los batallones republicanos, los reg de artilleria, lideres, modelos de tanques, etc... y no se puede construir barcos.
Tienes imagenes de como se ha ido desarrollando en el hilo de mi firma.
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anibal barca
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:18 pm

...

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Leibst
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:27 pm

gracias a ti Anibal, pero no es mod, es un juego oficial. ;) y perdona porque me he cargado tu post sin querer (eso de ser administrador torpe...:bonk :)

sorry for speaking spanish. :evilgrin:
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Lindi
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:31 pm

Je peut posé une question en français? :neener: (I have a bad english)

for more serious, the reason for use this option is because the transmission use command point and when I create Mixed Brigade that use less command point?

Because I guess the cost of transmission is more to simple unite so, mixed Brigade with Transmission and have more chance to lose transmission I not very understand for what reason. (transmission give only command point no?)

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Leibst
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Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:45 pm

It was because it is not possible to create a unit totally empty, so i had to design the Brigades with one element and i thought in the transmission as a good one.

This option not only gives you Mixed Brigades, it fires the conversion of the militia elements into regular infantry elements. And in December allow more armies.
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Lindi
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:55 am

ok thank.

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Kensai
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Fri Sep 13, 2013 5:25 pm

Clever design! Very nice, Leibstandarte!
Care to unify Germany as Austria? Recreate the Holy Roman Empire of the 20th Century:
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Searry
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:11 pm

Any info on international brigades?

anibal barca
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:45 pm

el tema de las brigadas internacionales,supongo que no se reclutaran,sino que las brigadas aparecerán disponibles en el bando republicano como históricamente fue,escalonadamente en el tiempo y en el juego será por eventos históricos,si me aclararas esta cuestión,gracias compañero.
otra cosa el precio,por que este juego cae fijo,supongo que será precio ageod. :)
debido a que hace meses no entro en mi cuenta de compra de juegos,veo que ya no existe y ahí tenia mis claves de los juegos que compre y los enlaces de los juegos y DCL,ademas el sitio de compra es otro y no se ni como comprar juegos ahí.
mi cuenta no existe como dije antes,si me puedes explicar como recuperar mi cuenta y como comprar juegos en esa nueva pagina.
en mi opinión ageod ha hecho muy mal quitando las cuentas de usuarios y haciendo otra pagina de compra,en mi caso confiaba en tener mis claves ahí guardadas,no se si las apunte en algún sitio.

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Leibst
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:45 pm

International Brigades are very similar to a Mixed Brigade but only for International Batallions with their historical names. They appear in the date they did and near the historical locations, there are 3 international Leaders.
In 1938 they are retired from game, around September i think.
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anibal barca
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 4:51 pm

Leibstandarte wrote:International Brigades are very similar to a Mixed Brigade but only for International Batallions with their historical names. They appear in the date they did and near the historical locations, there are 3 international Leaders.
In 1938 they are retired from game, around September i think.


maravilloso entonces,como me gusta eso le da una inmersión muy necesaria al juego con esa exactitud histórica,muchas gracias.

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Leibst
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:02 pm

No todo se ha podido representar, porque hay que ceñirse al motor.
Is not possible to represent all the historic situations because we have to work with the engine as it is.

Arrival of XI International Brigade and two leaders.
[ATTACH]24505[/ATTACH]
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International Brigades.jpg
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bob.
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Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:09 pm

242 seems like an extremely high combat strength for 3 units with only 1 element. Is combat strength generally higher than in other AGEOD games because of higher values across the board or is this brigade just very, very powerful?

Is there background info on the important leaders in the game? It's really just a minor point, but I always enjoy reading them. Of course I would understand if you didn't have the manpower to implement it.

Really looking forward to release!

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Leibst
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Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:57 am

yes, units have high combat strength in the game. :dada: regarding the background info, at the moment there is no info about that. As you say lack of time.
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PJJ
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Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:20 am

That info is something that can always be added later in patches after other more pressing issues have been dealt with, I hope. Short commander biographies add flavour to the game and make it easy to check some historical facts while playing. :)

I'm definitely going to play as the Republicans first and see if I can change history.

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Leibst
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Sun Sep 15, 2013 9:23 am

I'm trying to improve AI but only new ageod players could find problems in order to beat Athena.
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czert2
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 12:58 am

will international brigades have separate pool ? And it is nice to see that mod made it that far. I allways loved to try that.

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Leibst
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Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:17 am

yes, they are a subfaction and have its own replacements but can't buy units.
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le Anders
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Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:16 pm

The Brigades really need a better icon to distinguish Militia Brigades from Regulars. Unless there's something I'm missing.

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Leibst
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Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:38 am

le Anders wrote:The Brigades really need a better icon to distinguish Militia Brigades from Regulars. Unless there's something I'm missing.


You are right. Something is needed here.
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GlobalExplorer
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Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:51 am

Why are brigades formed automatic? I wanted to leave them alone for later, but after a turn suddenly every regiment in the province had formed a mixed brigade.

I also could not form mixed brigades with regular regiments, only militia.

I think some good ideas here but over complicated.

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caranorn
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Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:39 am

GlobalExplorer wrote:Why are brigades formed automatic? I wanted to leave them alone for later, but after a turn suddenly every regiment in the province had formed a mixed brigade.

I also could not form mixed brigades with regular regiments, only militia.

I think some good ideas here but over complicated.


I think what you've seen is the original column(a)s forming out. You have a number of units (not all with the term columna in their name) that start the game with a single element (battalion/bandera), which if located on a depot can receive additional elements (up to 4 total) from your militia replacements. These are distinct from the mixed brigades, which will only become available by option in the fall of 1936 (forgot which exact month, it's the creation of the national army option). Both the original columnas and the mixed brigades you receive for free from the option menu can only hold militia battalions. So if you want to add regular battalions to a mixed brigade you have to play the regular mixed brigade RGD (note those brigades will add regular elements if on a depot and you have the appropriate replacements)...
Marc aka Caran...

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GlobalExplorer
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Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:50 pm

Thanks but tbh it's incomprehensible to me. I'll simply give up understanding, but probably it becomes clear by regular playing.

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caranorn
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Sun Oct 20, 2013 4:39 pm

GlobalExplorer wrote:Thanks but tbh it's incomprehensible to me. I'll simply give up understanding, but probably it becomes clear by regular playing.


Is my reply incomprehensible? I can try in german if you wish (seing as your location is Berlin I will assume you understand the language :-) ...

Also, was ich sagen wollte:

Vieleicht handelt es sich bei dem was du geshen hast um Einheiten (columnas) die am Anfang des Scenarios aus einem einzigen Element bestehen, aber bis auf vier Militz Elemente ausgebaut werden können (z.B. vom Spieler hinzugefügt wie man auch Einheiten einer gemischten Brigade oder einer Division hinzufügt, aber auch durch Ersatzelemente falls die Einheit sich bei einem Depot befindet). Nicht alle diese Einheiten sind auf Anhieb als 4 Elemente (columnas) zu erkennen...

Die gemischte Brigaden kommen erst im Herbst 1936 (glaube September) über eine Option (National Armee) ins Spiel. Die Brigaden die du über diese Option erhälst bestehen zu Anfang nur aus einem Signal Element, können aber auf 4 Militz (die zu regulären Truppen aufgewertet werden können) und 1 Signal Element aufgebaut werden, das ähnlich wie bei den columnas eben über kombination von Einheiten oder über Ersatzelemente falls die Brigade auf einem Depot stationiert ist...

Zusätzlich dazu kannst du weiter gemischte Brigaden über RGD's (Regionale Entscheidungen) kaufen wo du dann die wahl zwischen Militz Brigaden und Regulären Brigaden hast, die letzeren können dann auf 1 Signal und 4 reguläre Elemente ausgebaut werden...

P.S.: Hab nichts mit "Espãna 1936" zu tun, bin nur ein regulärer Spieler was dieses Produkt angeht, also lies mein Kommentar nicht als offiziell...
Marc aka Caran...

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GlobalExplorer
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Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:29 pm

caranorn wrote: Nicht alle diese Einheiten sind auf Anhieb als 4 Elemente (columnas) zu erkennen...


and this is a problem ..

Your German is really very good ;)

But the explanation you give is too verbose, irrespective of the language, and that means it is a very complicated problem.

I don't undertsand it, and it would be better in a simple, listed form

(3) Types of mixed brigades

Typ 1:
created via:
recognizable by:
can hold these types of regiments:

Typ 2:
etc

Now to my problem. Sometime at the end of 1936 a large number of signal elements or mixed brigades were created via event, mostly in Madrid and Toledo.

The looked like a truck ;)

In the next turn many of them had turned into brigades with one regiment each, and I assume that they were auto-assigned to any free regiments that the engine found in the same province.

That's why I got confused and didn't know what happens. I also found I could not mix them afterwards with regular regiments. I assume they were of the militia type (blue uniform), but that's confusing because the one regiment they contained was of the regular type (brown uniform).

There are also International Brigades regiments which can all be formed to brigades, but some of them with a signal unit automatically inserted. You can see how this can become completely intransparent ..

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Leibst
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Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:23 am

All of the internationals have a signal element in the brigade unit. Join all the battalions into it or not. I leave free to the player to join the Internationals battalions in a different way, not the historical one.

Regardind the Mixed Brigades. When you create the Popular Army you get several historical Mixed Brigades. As it is not possible to create them empty they have a signal battalion. You can add into these brigades militia battalions up to four. And at the same moment that you create the Popular Army all the militia battalions begin its conversion to regular infantry battalions. This can even happen when the milita battalions are inside the Mixed Brigade.

If you buy militia replacements they can feed Militia Mixed Brigades.

The Regular Brigades appear only via Reg.Decision and can only have regular battalions.
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GlobalExplorer
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Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:14 am

Don't take it personal, but I think it's time for a reality check. If you believe more than a few dozen players in the world will understand this, you're under an illusion.

First of all, have you considered that it would absolutely suffice to have just regulars and militia? Your system puts regulars into countless special cases, why? There are regulars, "other" regulars formed from militias, even "other" regulars formed from anarchist battaillons, and not to forget, regulars from the regional decisions. All look the same, but are completely different. The player will learn about that when he tries to form brigades or reduce command penalties. Oh, and he may not notice the difference at first because there must be at a depot.

When players create the Exercito Popular they will simply want militia to turn into regulars. In this system they find out later that they get penalized because they can no longer form mixed brigades. Do you realize some people will delay Exercito Popular or reload a previous turn so that they can form mixed brigades before they can become "unusable for mixed brigades"?

Another example. In 1937 anarchist battaillons begin to turn into regulars, which have origin "Spain" but somehow still retain the anarchist penalty. But the tooltip says otherwise?!? I have a suspicions these are bugs that are rooted so deeply into the system that you will have problems fixing them even if you wanted to. But you certainly won't make this better with complicated solutions for simple problems.

From my 20+ years experience as a gamer and software developer I would say it's time for some damage control before people get p'd off. A fix for this could be creating individual unit graphics or make some simplifications to the mixed brigades system. I haven't looked into the aerial bombardment but my feeling is it's probably a similar situation.

Quite simply, as long as you are not able to put the complete information onto a single page in clear, intelligible sentences, there is something gone wrong with over-specialization.

I don't expect you will agree with me, but should you not heed my advice, please don't complain later if there will be consensus that the systems created for this game are almost "incomprehensible".

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picaron
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Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:22 am

The confusion comes from the Popular Army creation itself. And the player has to deal with this ''historical mess''.

He has caught very well the idea :thumbsup:

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