User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Tue Jul 22, 2014 1:54 pm

Mickey3D is still scratching his head after the last turn, so I'll take advantage of the pause to do a re-cap.

My decision not to build one blockade ship or one factory has not hurt me one bit.

Moving the capital to NYC was no problem at all really. The NM recovered automatically and this removed the only game winning threat the CSA can mount.

The defensive line of strongpoints I made in river ports across the midwest worked as advertised. St. Louis was put under siege a couple times, but nothing that the reserve corps couldn't handle.

My original plan to strike overland at the depots in VA from HF and the peninsula were rendered irrelevant by the great success I had with the partisans. These cards are almost an exploit.

As soon as KY entered on the Union side, the establishment of a base of operations in Prestonburg allowed my cavalry and eventually a Division to cut one rail line into VA. This should be in everyone's Union playbook.

The steamroller army that I meticulously assembled won some close battles, vindicating the effort I put into its creation.

As in WW II, my operation Overlord landings seems to have stretched the enemy to the breaking point. My own break-out at Garysburg has sealed the doom of VA. This was originally Grant's plan for 1864. It was deemed to be too much like McClellan's peninsula campaign against the CSA. In 1864, McClellan was campaigning against Lincoln, so the plan was denied, forcing Grant into the Wilderness.

So far, Lincoln should get a nice Christmas present this next turn and a Happy New Year in 1863.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

knowmad62
Conscript
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:24 pm

Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:48 pm

Look forward to Mickey3D's reaction to this situation. Question is
whether Mickey3D can hang on for a VP victory.

User avatar
havi
Colonel
Posts: 319
Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:31 am
Location: Lappeenranta

Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:56 pm

Sorry to be the party booper but I will b anyways. I have seen u parading in the pathways of NC and VA but I don't think u can strangle defeat of CSA with those moves u have to storm te Richmond to do so. If u can do it then maybe b victorious in 63... But I see this game and aar to go till to the end of 65. CSA has this never say die attitude.

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:39 pm

I know that in the Far West, if I don't have supplies then my troops take hits until they vanish. Maybe the CSA won't have this problem in VA. Maybe one single depot automatically fills like a cornucopia with all the GS an army of 20 Divisions needs. Maybe I just don't understand the supply rules.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Wed Jul 23, 2014 6:06 pm

I think you've effectively cut off VA and now the question is how much supply ended up getting stockpiled in Mickey3D's depots. If it's well over 3,000 GS per depot (and I've seen this in CSA games), it's going to take a while before those green bars start to drop.

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Thu Jul 24, 2014 2:12 pm

The other critical problem facing Mickey3D is that he has twenty Divisions defending VA and one Division defending NC and perhaps the road to the rest of the CSA. I anticipate that the defenses in VA are about to implode. Lee with Jackson and Longstreet must move to NC to oppose Rosecrans, Grant and Kearney or I can ravage the heartland. I am about to land McDowell with another army in NC to seal the deal. The remaining Confederate Divisions in VA/WV would face the fate of Sixth Army at Stalingrad if they don't also withdraw. With 20 Divisions moving in winter a great deal of attrition will deplete his forces and moving stacks will not be entrenched against Rosecrans elite army. That's the situation as I see it.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

Merlin
General
Posts: 581
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 pm
Location: St. Paul, MN

Thu Jul 24, 2014 6:32 pm

I agree. tripax and I were talking about VA in our game and I mentioned because there's so much maneuver room and so few choke points, there exists this indefinable tipping point which causes the entire theater to suddenly collapse. I've been in this situation several times as a CSA player and managing the fighting withdrawal as well as securing the rails south is a very precarious business. Either you succeed and continue to be a pain in the ass for a good four to six months before you pull a Johnston into the Carolinas, or you fail miserably and all but lose the game in one or two turns.

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:53 am

Gray Fox wrote:
As in WW II, my operation Overlord landings seems to have stretched the enemy to the breaking point. My own break-out at Garysburg has sealed the doom of VA. This was originally Grant's plan for 1864. It was deemed to be too much like McClellan's peninsula campaign against the CSA. In 1864, McClellan was campaigning against Lincoln, so the plan was denied, forcing Grant into the Wilderness.


It took me a while to find Garysburg on the map. Looks like it is in the middle of a swamp, are you worried about your own supply situation? In terms of the grand plan to starve the armies in VA, I think the net is too wide. Between all the towns and farm bonuses in the whole of VA, plus the supply monster/magnet that is Richmond, the state can go a long time...perhaps indefinitely. Not to mention that if your Grand Army cuts to the South, all he has to do is trail you, block you from the sea, and retake points as you move on. You have the forces to put the bear hug on Richmond, it just seems like your turning movements are way too large and his interior lines haven't really been disrupted.

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:16 pm

Post #27 in the AAR displays the three rail lines into VA. Garysburg is on that pic with a green line indicating that it was the only depot within 5 regions of a depot in VA. It's a clear region in clear weather at present. I have riverine transports that provide supply while a depot is being built inside its citadel. So the sea lanes are my supply lines and I control the sea of course.

Post #58 has my appraisal of the supply situation in VA/WV. I think that we all agree that supplies are not distributed magically. If the rules are understandable, then VA does not produce enough GS to support the 20 Divisions that support her defense.

I received the late December turn. Mickey3D has decided to stand and fight in VA. I have an overall force of approximately 40 Divisions and Mickey3D has about two thirds of that or 26-27 Divisions. He has 20 Divisions in VA, 2 In Wytesville, 1 laying seige to St. Louis, 1 in Charleston MO and thus about 3 Divisions spread around in point defense. His interior lines do not extend to NC or the rest of the South.

McDowell landed in Tyrell, NC and Grant took the citadel in Garysburg. Unfortunately, the Division I had in Wytesville fled from JEB Stuart's force. Fortunately, Stuart can return Wytesville to me without a fight or watch Grant and McDowell gobble up NC. Rosecrans in the Citadel at Garysburg is a roadblock that Lee must overcome before he could pursue my forces in NC. The clear terrain and clear weather would allow all my 20-lbers to slaughter his men before they got to the walls. Unlike the historical setup, I now hold strong defensive positions that the South must assault. I don't have to attack in VA yet because those units will starve. Then I will attack any survivors.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:57 pm

Gray Fox wrote: I have riverine transports that provide supply while a depot is being built inside its citadel. So the sea lanes are my supply lines and I control the sea of course.


Correct me if I am wrong, but Garysburg has no port correct? I don't think building a depot will spawn a port, and with out one you are dependent on micromanaging transports to keep the place supplied. (Of course, if you do get a port in Garysburg then are correct in saying that you could stay there forever.)

In terms of VA's general supply capacity, from what I understand he still holds most of the state. I did a quick baseline using the July 61 campaign as a start point. My survey of all the VA towns showed a baseline of 641 GS a turn. Of the towns, Richmond, New Market and Burkeville stand out, yealding 304 in just those three. The problem with the baseline is that it doesn't take into account the loyalty production bonus of 50% at 100% loyalty. Factor that in, and Va could pump out up 961.5 units of supply a turn (and 456 from our big 3). (And that assumes he hasn't built any industry).

Now you make a couple of assumptions. CSA has 20 divisions in Va. I'm not quite sure where you get the number. From your screens, it's unclear. He could have many fewer and is just using his interior lines effectively. But I am going to accept your number of an upper use 700 GS a turn. That means he could still be getting a per turn surplus of 261 gs a turn. (Even if average loyalty is only 75% in VA, it is still over 800 a turn.)

Next assumption is that the critical depots you raided haven't been rebuilt. I suppose you would be able to see that through the fow on the campaign map and it doesn't mean he can't in the future. Besides, if he shifts troops along the Burksville-Greensboro line, he can still get in front of you in NC and his troops are no longer drawing from Richmond. (Plus your hungry hoast gets further form a base).

So to conclude, if your new fortress has no port, then that base huge supply problem. Va has a lot of potential supply production as a whole, especially if loyalty is high. You simply need a much tighter encirclement. Not so much cut Va off from the world as cutting the rebel troops off from Richmond, or cutting Richmond off from the rest of Va. (Not that I'm going to ruin the fun by suggesting how!

If you want me to post the town-by-town numbers, let me know. (Oh and my reference numbers come a current beta-patch version that nerfed the supply production stats, so if you are playing with the 1.03 my numbers could be even be a low-ball.)

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:50 pm

Size 1 & 2 cities don't forward supplies. So a garrison is supplied inside such a city, but they don't forward supplies to Richmond. By CTRL+clicking each size 3+ city and cursoring over the actual structures (including plantations), I get a GS production total in VA available for forwarding to units of 290 per turn (from a game I played to February 1863). That's maybe enough for 9 Divisions. Sooner or later 20 Divisions will starve down to less than half strength and cohesion. My full strength units will then shatter and annihilate them. This assumes that the supply rules actually work as advertised.

I have depots in Norfolk, Edenton and soon Plymouth NC and Garysburg. The transports were built to fill any supply gaps. I may now have more GS in VA than the Virginians have.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:03 pm

Admittedly I'm not the big supply expert, so I had to go digging round to find Granate's supply essay...

You are right in saying that level 1-2 cities do not forward to troops. BUT my understanding is that depots do in effect suck up supplies in a certain radius. So a depot within it's draw range will be receiving from those itty bitty towns too....That production isn't just simply "lost." Also according to Armchair, supply wagons can also suck supplies from structures within range, which presumably includes 1&2 level cities.

Bottom line, if the level 1+2 city is within 5 regions of a depot, I think it is safe to assume it gets sucked into that depot's supply stockpile, and thus into the supply network. Also if the stack has a supply wagon, that wagon will suck supplies from even 1+2 level towns right next to it.

At least that is my understanding of how the supply systems work. Wagons and depots hoover up supplies around them (from all sources), then depots and 3+ towns can push it forward to the units that need the supplies.

As for Garysburg, you should know pretty quick what is going on. My assumption is that lacking a port, your Garysburg depot is cut off from your riverine and sea based supply links. Transports next to Garysburg should give supply from their stockpile to troops in Garysburg, but not to the depot. (According to Armchair wagons (and presumably transports) suck supply from structures but never give back to structures). A chain of wagons (and presumably transports) does not move supply along the chain... so a chain of transports to Norfolk shouldn't provide you a link. My guess is that you will have to keep parking transports next to Gary, and rotate them out as they run dry. But to get Gary to directly receive goods by sea from New York, would require securing some port with a depot, like Wilmington and the connecting rail line.

Of course it could be that I'm very wrong about the supply stuff. If you are planning on staying in your fortress for a while, I would be very grateful if you could collect some turn-by-turn supply flow data for the Garysburg depot, and surrounding units and fleets so we can know if a coastal depot without a port receives supply from the wider network. (And of course if your esteemed opponent is keeping a log of the Richmond depot supply levels, all so much the better for post game analysis)

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:04 pm

Admittedly I'm not the big supply expert, so I had to go digging round to find Granate's supply essay...

You are right in saying that level 1-2 cities do not forward to troops. BUT my understanding is that depots do in effect suck up supplies in a certain radius. So a depot within it's draw range will be receiving from those itty bitty towns too....That production isn't just simply "lost." Also according to Armchair, supply wagons can also suck supplies from structures within range, which presumably includes 1&2 level cities.

Bottom line, if the level 1+2 city is within 5 regions of a depot, I think it is safe to assume it gets sucked into that depot's supply stockpile, and thus into the supply network. Also if the stack has a supply wagon, that wagon will suck supplies from even 1+2 level towns right next to it.

At least that is my understanding of how the supply systems work. Wagons and depots hoover up supplies around them (from all sources), then depots and 3+ towns can push it forward to the units that need the supplies.

As for Garysburg, you should know pretty quick what is going on. My assumption is that lacking a port, your Garysburg depot is cut off from your riverine and sea based supply links. Transports next to Garysburg should give supply from their stockpile to troops in Garysburg, but not to the depot. (According to Armchair wagons (and presumably transports) suck supply from structures but never give back to structures). A chain of wagons (and presumably transports) does not move supply along the chain... so a chain of transports to Norfolk shouldn't provide you a link. My guess is that you will have to keep parking transports next to Gary, and rotate them out as they run dry. But to get Gary to directly receive goods by sea from New York, would require securing some port with a depot, like Wilmington and the connecting rail line.

Of course it could be that I'm very wrong about the supply stuff. If you are planning on staying in your fortress for a while, I would be very grateful if you could collect some turn-by-turn supply flow data for the Garysburg depot, and surrounding units and fleets so we can know if a coastal depot without a port receives supply from the wider network. (And of course if your esteemed opponent is keeping a log of the Richmond depot supply levels, all so much the better for post game analysis)

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:23 pm

The 20 Divisions would need an extra 51 size 1 cities in VA to remain supplied. So...

My depots in Norfolk and Edenton are within 5 regions of Garysburg. As I understand it, the supplies in the coastal depots would move to Garysburg's depot by land too and without the need for rails. The riverine transports are a backup for now. I'll let you know what I discover, which is the purpose of my AAR.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:28 pm

Gray Fox wrote:The 20 Divisions would need an extra 51 size 1 cities in VA to remain supplied. So...
If that is indeed how many he has :)
I was surprised that you estimated that 20 divisions would draw only between 6 and 700. I had divisions figured at 17 elements pulling 4 per, so like 68 supply per division, which would add up to like 1,360 per turn (which would throw even my big total state number out the window).

Thanks for keeping track of the supplies. It would be news to me if water transited supplies could land at depots without ports.


(and it appears that supplies being pushed from a depot can go up river and land in a destination region, even if it does not have a harbor. There might be some effect of weather and terrain in the final region, but I suppose the main limiting factor is the size of the pushing depot....oh and there is not some fort along the river someplace :) . But do be so kind as to tool tip your Gary depot with the supply overlay to confirm that it is receiving. If it is working, you might have just proved the best back door into Va...)

charlesonmission
Posts: 771
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2011 5:55 am
Location: USA (somewhere)

Mon Aug 25, 2014 12:23 am

Gray Fox, can you tell us your thoughts on the current situation?

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Mon Aug 25, 2014 1:02 pm

Sorry, I'm back in college now and my turns rate may suffer. Mickey3D has done an excellent job of counter-attracking. My force in the citadel at Garysburg fled after an attack by Lee...even though they were in the citadel, so I don't know how that happened. My supplies are stacked up in the ports and don't seem to be moving inland to the troops. This has slowed my progress. I work and have classes the next four days, but I will try to do an update.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Tue Aug 26, 2014 12:16 pm

Gray Fox wrote:My supplies are stacked up in the ports and don't seem to be moving inland to the troops. This has slowed my progress.


When you do get to it, I'd like to know about dem supplies.... I wouldn't be surprised if supplies can't land at Garysburg... (Have fun in school!)

Damius
Conscript
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Sep 02, 2014 9:12 pm

Thu Sep 04, 2014 3:52 pm

I just posted this in M3D's thread, since you don't read eachother's threads:

I take my :hat: off to you and Gray Fox, both AAR's are very nice to read and very detailed.
As a new player I also like the decision making process on both sides, the reasons for doing or not doing things, the doubts etc. Learned alot on the way aswell...Thanks!

Can't root for you though, it's the Rebel in me preventing that. :wacko:

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Fri Sep 05, 2014 1:52 pm

Thank you very much! Indeed, thank all of you for your kind interest in our game. However, I can no longer find the time to continue while in college. I have offered Mickey3D my terms for surrender. I have really enjoyed PbEM and would heartily recommend my esteemed opponent to anyone interested in a game. He was a superb mentor for this first-timer. Now I am very much looking forward to reading his side of the conflict!
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:06 pm

Thanks a lot to you GF, this was really a gripping PBEM and I scratched my head more than once... :hat:

Thanks for your fair play, it was a real pleasure to play with/against you and sorry if somewhere in July the rythm of the game decreased.

Until I detected Grant in the East I tried as much as possible to play as I would in another "standard" game but, for sure, you lose a little bit of the surprise your "all in the East" strategy can create against an unaware opponent.

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Fri Sep 05, 2014 7:16 pm

The last .trn file is attached here for people who would like to have a look and analyze our relative position.

User avatar
OneArmedMexican
General
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Fri Sep 12, 2014 5:20 pm

Hmmh interesting AAR.

I may be talking out of my ass (since RL forced a very long hiatus from AGEOD games + the games after RuS couldn't pick my interest) - however I used to be a rather competent PBEM player (of all my opponents only one ever managed to defeat me). Thus I dare a few observations anyway:


Overall strategy - "all East":

It makes sense regarding NM, VP and possibly even prodcution but it seems bad to me from an operational point of view. The question is how to exploit the numeric superiority of the Union best. Your choice focuses on the theater that is most promising NM-wise. But in doing so you compress the frontline. This allows the South to ignore large parts of the map to the point where it only has to man a rather short stretch of territory. This allows a Southern player to establish a continous line of well entrenched stacks that can mutially support each other. This should never be allowed to the South since such a front is costly to break as flanking is only possible at the two ends of the line and everywhere else you are reduced to bloody frontal assaults. Moreover, the Southern player has to worry a lot less since you limit your chances to outmaneuver him without necessity.

In my opinion, the more promising strategy is to stretch the Southern forces to their breaking point. Make the CSA player fear for everything; for the most part the Union has the initiative anyway and can pick where it concentrates enough to overwhelm/flank/budger the stretched Southern forces. Such a strategy may take an equal amount of time in the end but it certainly will lead to less casualties on the Union side.
Eventually, your answer to the solid line problem seems to have been a flanking move via Norflok (in other words you stretched the line). That is sensible but I am surprised your opponent didn't counter it better - after all he must have seen you mass troops there and should have been able to reinforce his own stacks on that front via his interior lines.

In your shoes, I would have probably gone for a "prioritize the East" rather than an "all East" strategy. The East is undoubtedly the primary theater of war - it features the most important objectives and is most likely to grant you the victory. Any sensible player puts his best forces and generals there and a Union player not achieving a considerable numerical advantage there, sets himself up for a loss. But if you hadn't inflexibly limited your Western divisions to garrison duties (except for a small relieve column) but rather used them as field forces while only lightly guarding the most important cities, you probably would have had a field army of 5-6 divisions in that theater usable for offensive operations and given Mickey additional headaches ... as well as made your task in the East easier since he would have almost certainly diverted troops. Moreover, your garrison ploy also threatens the very survival of the troops you leave inside cities. A flying corps of 2-3 divisions backed up by a nice artillery park (especially some siege arty) in the West and Mickey could siege your fortified cities one after another until the garrison eventually surrenders. Slow but effective (since those surrenders would cost you NM).


Supply as a weapon:

It's a good idea and complements your eastern strategy nicely since the compression of troops is certain to make supply more of an issue. Especially in RuS there used to be a critical mass of troops that the country simply couldn't supply but again a good opponent is anything but helpless against such a tactic: build new depots, strengthen your supply lines and the issue can be solved. If Mickey didn't and supply should indeed have become a massive issue for him as a result, it's entirely his fault.


Division built:

Seems sensible, in previous titles the golden rule was (very roughly) to combine as many boni as possible into a single division. Especially useful was to add 1 marines, 1 sharpshooter, 1 cavalry, 1 elite unit, etc. to each division (more than one was a waste) - I used to add 3-5 arties per division but also liked to have an unattached artillery reserve in each corps. Unattached units are inefficient CP-wise but unattached artillery offers its own advantage. It was always a compromise that depended on available CP. Too much arty into a single division is bad since you need a solid infantry backbone to soak up hits. However having no arty in your divisions seems questionable to me. Artillery greatly boasts the firepower of a division; not least of all it empowers a division with long range firepower. This can be crucial. Your setup without arty seems to incapacitate your division at long range combat transforming them to pure mid/close range fighting forces. Meaning an division engaged at long range takes hits but can't fire back. You have to rely on your arty reserve to make up for it. Moreover, you lose the boosts good divisional commanders or other units inside the division could grant your arty.
But again these observation are based on older titles CW1, RuS, PoN, BiA2, etc. - the rules may have changed since (although from what I have read here, I doubt they have changed that radical).

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Fri Sep 12, 2014 6:47 pm

Hi OneArmedMexican, thanks a lot for your analysis.

A few comments from the CSA point of view :

OneArmedMexican wrote:Eventually, your answer to the solid line problem seems to have been a flanking move via Norflok (in other words you stretched the line). That is sensible but I am surprised your opponent didn't counter it better - after all he must have seen you mass troops there and should have been able to reinforce his own stacks on that front via his interior lines.


- In CW2, landing is a more effective weapon than in AACW because you can move and land in the same turn (In AACW you should first move and in the next turn land).
- Wisely, GrayFox chose not to land in Norfolk but in Edenton (just south of Norfolk) : a swamp area with no railway so no way for the CSA to quickly move force there. Moreover, as CSA you think first to defend Norfolk, not Edenton.


Mickey could siege your fortified cities one after another until the garrison eventually surrenders. Slow but effective (since those surrenders would cost you NM).


All the cities were also Harbor (Saint-Louis, Cairo, Louisville, ...) so you must also blockade the harbor to cut the supply.


It's a good idea and complements your eastern strategy nicely since the compression of troops is certain to make supply more of an issue. Especially in RuS there used to be a critical mass of troops that the country simply couldn't supply but again a good opponent is anything but helpless against such a tactic: build new depots, strengthen your supply lines and the issue can be solved. If Mickey didn't and supply should indeed have become a massive issue for him as a result, it's entirely his fault.


I was initially a little bit worried but Virginia can supply alone more or less 20 divisions : more than enough at that time in the game.

User avatar
OneArmedMexican
General
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:14 pm

Fri Sep 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Well Mickey as expected I was wrong in some regards.

Mickey3D wrote:- In CW2, landing is a more effective weapon than in AACW because you can move and land in the same turn (In AACW you should first move and in the next turn land).


You could do both in the same turn but granted often you weren't able to do so because sea movement + the actual landing could easily take more than 14 days. But I remember a crazy amphibious invasion of New York in BiA2 that took my PBEM opponent completely by surprise since my navy wasn't parked before its coast before landing there.


Mickey3D wrote:- Wisely, GrayFox chose not to land in Norfolk but in Edenton (just south of Norfolk) : a swamp area with no railway so no way for the CSA to quickly move force there. Moreover, as CSA you think first to defend Norfolk, not Edenton.


So let him have that swamp hole (no offence to anybody who might live at Edenton) - the interesting part starts when he wants to get out of it. I probably would have given up Norfolk (danger of being cut off) then put a force between him and Petersburg. I most likely would have retreated my forces all the way to Petersburg and only left single regiments along the railway to Norfilk to keep field entrenchments ready. The next turn you could have moved your men forward again by rail, occupied the entrenchments in defensive posture and let your opponent stumble into a dug in field army that he would have never attacked frontally out of his free will.

Mickey3D wrote:All the cities were also Harbor (Saint-Louis, Cairo, Louisville, ...) so you must also blockade the harbor to cut the supply.


I wasn't really clear in that regard - my mistake. I wrote about bringing along enough artillery. If he has a harbour to keep his force supplied, then your artillery advantage (siege arty!) needs to be considerable enough to enable you to win the siege rolls and completely breech the fortification. Next you storm it with your superior numbers and get even more NM out of the affair. At least in my experience from older AGEOD PBEMs is that it is rarely a good idea to risk major forces being besieged. Beside that part of GF's strategy just seems like a major waste of fighting forces to me. Why not concentrate those division into 1 or 2 field forces that can actually achieve something (and if it's only winning a few defensive engagements) or make you second guess your troop transfers to the East?


But like I said it has been a while since I played myself, thus I can't be sure my opinions hold true any longer.


Last but certainly not least: you two have written a very enjoyable AAR - thank you! And good luck to both of you! :thumbsup:

User avatar
Mickey3D
Posts: 1569
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: Lausanne, Switzerland

Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:40 pm

OneArmedMexican wrote:But I remember a crazy amphibious invasion of New York in BiA2 that took my PBEM opponent completely by surprise since my navy wasn't parked before its coast before landing there.

In CW2 amphibious operation is basicaly the same as in BiA2 : you pick the "Distant Unload" order and then choose the region of destination. This was not possible in AACW.


So let him have that swamp hole (no offence to anybody who might live at Edenton) - the interesting part starts when he wants to get out of it. I probably would have given up Norfolk (danger of being cut off) then put a force between him and Petersburg.

It's basically what I did. Great minds think alike ;) :thumbsup:


I wrote about bringing along enough artillery. If he has a harbour to keep his force supplied, then your artillery advantage (siege arty!) needs to be considerable enough to enable you to win the siege rolls and completely breech the fortification. Next you storm it with your superior numbers and get even more NM out of the affair. ? At least in my experience from older AGEOD PBEMs is that it is rarely a good idea to risk major forces being besieged.

You need at least a 3 to 1 advantage to storm a structure : I was not able to gather this force in the West and at the same time defend against his invasion force in Virginia/Northern Carolina.


you two have written a very enjoyable AAR - thank you!

Thanks to you and your comments are always welcome : I do not pretend to have done everything correctly.

User avatar
pgr
General
Posts: 529
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:33 pm
Location: Paris France (by way of Wyoming)

Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:28 pm

Great to read GF. That was a wonderful little army you put together. I probably would have tried a landing at Tapahhnock and Warsaw and tried to get between the Rebs and Richmond rather than going down to NC, but I think you handled yourself very well. This was your first PBEM right?

User avatar
Gray Fox
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1296
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:48 pm
Location: Englewood, OH

Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:46 pm

Yes this was my first PBEM. I am overjoyed that it still sparks interest.

OneArmedMexican, the whole point for me was to demonstrate the all-east strategy. That's why I moved the capital to NYC. I believe that it is a viable strategy. At the very least, I hope that it was fun for Mickey.

I also believe that you would find the garrison cities to be a tough nut to crack. When CSA operations in WV were no longer a threat because I had destroyed the depot in Morgantown and Mickey the depot in Strassburg, then the garrison Divisions in Pittsburgh and WV became a three Division reserve to prevent any siege of the remaining garrisons. This was the force that relieved St. Louis. So, none of these were ever intended to be Alamos. Thanks for your comments.
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

Return to “CW2 AARs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest