A few questions about Support Units

[Tyronis2054]

Hey Everyone,

I enjoyed the original ACCW, but couldn't take the time truly master it, way back when it first came out, finally picked up the sequel a few weeks ago and having a blast and now that I feel I'm a good grasp of the most of the AGEOD concepts (hey it only took a few years, lol), however, one thing that still sort of alludes me are Support Units, thus a few questions for vets here on the forums.

1) Where should I be putting my Support units? In the Army Stack or the Corp Stacks?

2) In general, I've learned Army HQ Support is the best of all support units, since it has all 3, now if I place that in a Army or Corp Stack, and than I place one of it's stand alone unit that gives just a specific bonus instead of all 3 will it stack? or will I only get the bonus once?

3) The descriptions are pretty clear, all the bonus are given to the stack, but what If I have an Army, and 2 Corps let's say in the same region, their obviously not in the same stack, but I keep them marching together by using the synchronize march feature, so if I put let's say a Pontoon Bridge unit in the Army Stack, will that unit also give the benefits to the other 2 corp traveling along with the army since they are marching together? or I have to make sure I give each Corps unit a Pontoon Bridge Unit since technically their not in the same stack?

4) Single Companies, they look rather interesting in what they can do, not only on the +1 command points, but it seems to be a +1 to an abilities, however, when I've placed Single Companies in a Corps Unit that has leaders with abilities for example, (or an Army HQ support unit which has the single company) the tooltip still says it's "Level 1" not Level 2 on my leaders leading that stack.. Are there only certain abilities that go beyond Level 1 which the single company unit increases? or is it just a tooltip error in terms of it not updating to the correct level?

And that's all I can think of for now, and forgive me if this has been asked for before, I tried searching the forums and googling too, but couldn't really find the exact answers to my questions in searching all that, so figured I would just ask.

thanks everyone!

[Captain_Orso]

1. Supply trains, artillery, SIGNAL companies, engineers, pioneers, and hospital units are all support units, so it depends on which you are talking about.

2. Abilities do not stack up. If you have an HQ Support unit in a stack and add a SIGNAL company to that stack, it will give you no further advantage.

3. All support units affect only the stack they are in, so you've already answered your own question, with the exception of artillery, which is a far more complex question.

4. The SIGNAL company give +1 CP 'and an additional +1 per ability level'. The 'ability level' is that of the stack commander. So if your stack commander is at ability level 2 (check the tool-tips of the leader's abilities - you may need to open the element detail window of the leader by clicking on his NATO symbol in the unit detail panel to the right of the stack panel) it will gain an addition +1 CP.

[Tyronis2054]

thanks for the response, in terms of #1... I essentially mean all of them, now that I know they don't stack.

I guess it's a good idea to put these support units like the Army HQ, etc... in the Corps stack rather than the Army itself?

[Gray Fox]

Welcome Tyronis!

I put these in any stack that I can afford. The Union can more easily accomplish this, so Grant's Army stack and his Corps stacks get an HQ and a balloon unit. All of these stacks would have combat Divisions that would benefit from the support. Each also gets an Engineer and a Pontooneer. These two units both combine effects to decrease the time needed to entrench. The CSA may be better off by stacking the HQ's in locations where you train up militia and cav. These units would benefit from the experience points the HQ gives. The effect only works when the HQ is stationary. So Confederate manuever stacks might get a Signal and Hospital unit instead. It's an additional cost, but the HQ trainer is a valuable asset.

[Tyronis2054]

Welcome Tyronis!

I put these in any stack that I can afford. The Union can more easily accomplish this, so Grant's Army stack and his Corps stacks get an HQ and a balloon unit. All of these stacks would have combat Divisions that would benefit from the support. Each also gets an Engineer and a Pontooneer. These two units both combine effects to decrease the time needed to entrench. The CSA may be better off by stacking the HQ's in locations where you train up militia and cav. These units would benefit from the experience points the HQ gives. The effect only works when the HQ is stationary. So Confederate manuever stacks might get a Signal and Hospital unit instead. It's an additional cost, but the HQ trainer is a valuable asset.

I see, thanks!! between the 2 responses have a much better understanding of the support units now. One last question, the Training Officer ability it seems it can go beyond level 1, as I just tested it and currently in my Union Army, Halleck is at "Level 2" for Training Officer if it has the proper support unit part of that stack, however the tool tip description is still exactly the same, only 2 regiments at a time can be trained, so wondering if maybe it's a tooltip bug, and level 2 should be more regiments trained at once?

thanks,

[Captain_Orso]

Welcome Tyronis!

I put these in any stack that I can afford. The Union can more easily accomplish this, so Grant's Army stack and his Corps stacks get an HQ and a balloon unit. All of these stacks would have combat Divisions that would benefit from the support. Each also gets an Engineer and a Pontooneer. These two units both combine effects to decrease the time needed to entrench. The CSA may be better off by stacking the HQ's in locations where you train up militia and cav. These units would benefit from the experience points the HQ gives. The effect only works when the HQ is stationary. So Confederate manuever stacks might get a Signal and Hospital unit instead. It's an additional cost, but the HQ trainer is a valuable asset.

I see, thanks!! between the 2 responses have a much better understanding of the support units now. One last question, the Training Officer ability it seems it can go beyond level 1, as I just tested it and currently in my Union Army, Halleck is at "Level 2" for Training Officer if it has the proper support unit part of that stack, however the tool tip description is still exactly the same, only 2 regiments at a time can be trained, so wondering if maybe it's a tooltip bug, and level 2 should be more regiments trained at once?

thanks,

Sorry if I wasn't clear. The Signal Co. doesn't modify the stack commander's abilities, but the other way around. The level of the stack commander modifies the Signal Co. ability. So if the stack commander is level 2, the Signal Co. should give its stack +2 CP's, instead of just +1 CP.

With regards to Signal Co.'s the level of the stack commander is his EL (Experience Level, which is designated by the number of black stars to be found on his unit card in the element detail window; click on the leader's NATO symbol to open this. If the leader has 0 stars he is level 1, if he has 1 star he is level 2, etc.).

On a side note, many of the abilities leaders have can also increase with the leader's EL, but generally they only increase every other EL; some on odd numbered EL's and some on even. The unit's ability icon too-tip in the stack panel will tell you the level.

[Gray Fox]

You're most welcome!

I have the latest patch, so this is to the best of my knowledge. If you place your cursor directly over the Training Officer icon, you'll get a message describing how it works. The message does not have the line "per ability level" so it only operates at level one.

[Tyronis2054]

Ahh,

Ok thank you @Gray Fox and @Captain_Orso, now I get the way single company's work, basically just a CP hog, heh.

So than I guess one question still sort of applies if the commanders gain an increase in level, based on it's experience, than what are the exact bonuses per each new level?

For example, in the Training Officer case:

Level 1 and Level 2, seem to do the same exact thing, train 2 regiments to the next level on the tooltip, I figured if an ability increases to the next level, it should an increase in what it provides right? (I guess I got to much RPG in me, when I see Levels, I just think this, lol) or what exactly am I missing with the increase in levels when they do happen?

[Gray Fox]

Units that gain experience stars get better combat stats. Similarly, Generals get better Strategy, Offensive and Defensive numbers as they gain experience. In addition, Generals also gain Seniority with combat success. Experience and Seniority aren't directly related to my knowledge, but they pretty much follow the same path.

[Tyronis2054]

Units that gain experience stars get better combat stats. Similarly, Generals get better Strategy, Offensive and Defensive numbers as they gain experience. In addition, Generals also gain Seniority with combat success. Experience and Seniority aren't directly related to my knowledge, but they pretty much follow the same path.

My fault, should have been a little more specific in the last question I asked than just what happens when they level up.

What I'm trying to understand are in terms of the actual Leader Ability Traits, when they gain a level, it seems the ability is still exactly the same.. Meaning, Training Officer Level 1 and Training Officer Level 2 for example, still perform the exact same thing, Level 2 doesn't not increase let's say the regiments it can train, etc.. It's still just 2 regiments like Level 1.

I'm trying to understand if this is intended or not?

thanks again for the all the responses.

[Captain_Orso]

Leaders start the war with their raw Strategic, Offensive, and Defensive values; the same you will find in their model file in '..\CW2\GameData\Models\'.

After gaining 10 XP (eXperience Points - check the tool-tip of their stars on their unit cards in the element display window) a leader will gain 1 star and be at EL 1 (Experience Level 1). At EL 1 he will gain +1 in his Defensive value.

For example Edmund K. Smith starts as a Brig. Gen. with 4-3-2 and 0 stars. At EL 1 (1 star) he will be 4-3-3.

To gain the next EL he will need to gain twice as many XP as for the previous EL, therefore another 20 XP to reach EL 2 with a total of 30 XP. At this point he will gain +1 Offensive value and be 4-4-3.

To gain an XP a unit must, IIRC, score twice as many hits as it has scored on it. Leaders gain a small percentage of the XP gained be the units under their command.

To gain the next EL it is always double the XP of what was necessary to gain the current EL, except at the start where it is alway 10 XP necessary to gain EL 1 for all leaders.

Leaders never gain Strategic value, ever, and their Offensive and Defensive values are capped at 6. So even if you could get Smith to EL 7 or above (highly unlikely for any leader at all) he would be 4-6-6 and never raise above that.

When a leader is promoted to the next higher rank, he will lose about half of the XP he has earned and therefore possible an EL.

Some leaders have special abilities denoted by the small circular icons in the lower left corner of their unit counter. Some of these abilities can level-up with EL gained. Some never level up, such as Training Officer, which will always remain the same.

I believe there may be a table in the datebase files download that describes the abilities and possibly of if and when they level-up, but I'm not sure about that.

But other than understanding that some abilities can level-up I would not worry about it. It is completely impractical to try to level up a leader to try to gain an ability level. You just have far to little influence over the game, because the enemy is working just has hard to prevent you from being just that successful. Playing the game there are far more important things to consider.

[Tyronis2054]

Some leaders have special abilities denoted by the small circular icons in the lower left corner of their unit counter. Some of these abilities can level-up with EL gained. Some never level up, such as Training Officer, which will always remain the same.

I see, which is why I find strange when you mention Training Officer doesn't level up, but if you look at this screenshot below, Halleck is at "Level 2" for Training Officer:



So I guess than what I'm looking at is a bug? In general, you are right, I'm not to worried about abilities, but Training Officer's seems to be one of those rare exceptions since they train units up from Militia, which is a nice cheap way to get good units at low cost... So when I saw that Halleck was level 2, (maybe he was like that from the start, not sure, but I have been using him in a Corps, so it must have been from leveling up)... It made me wonder if that ability can get better, hence the minor confusion, since Level 2 is exactly the same Level 1.

If it's bug so be it, I'll just know not to focus on that anymore and move on , lol.. overall thanks though for the detailed response.

regards,

[Gray Fox]

Some ability pop up messages state their effect increases "per ability level", like Good or Gifted Commander. Most do not have more than the basic effect and don't include that phrase. Since Trainer does not increase in effect, even though it may show Level 2, then it may be confusing. I can't say if that makes it a bug.

[Tyronis2054]

I see alrighty, thanks again everyone, think I got a good understanding of a support units now