More beginner questions on forming Corps and Divisions

[major snafu]

Hi all,

I am play the 1862 Western scenario.

Both Corps and Divisions are available and in different locations on the map.

I am working on trying to organize the forces under Grant and I have been working with re organizing the composition of the 6 divisions that are the initial layout under Grant when the scenario begins.

I can split up divisions to individuals, and then move individual units from stack to stack and then re-combine the divisions. I even stripped all of the units out of one of the Divisions and relocated the (horrible) general to a large city for recruiting.

My current problem is forming corps from these 5 remaining divisions.

No matter what combination of divisions I try, and even if I note that both of the generals in a 2 division stack are capable of making attack orders, the form corps button doesn't become available.

I cannot, so far, figure out what the sure and certain way to combine stacks into a corps is.

In one of my attempts, I did combine two divisions (accidentally, before I had re-organized the divisions) and that one time the create corps button came on. But when I took the divisions apart, did some reorganization and then re-combined them, I could no longer form a corps with them.

So I am missing something basic here. I have re-read the manual and I did some searching of the forum, but what I have found so far has not allowed me to be able to fill in this gap.

I assume that there must be a way to examine two divisions, and then know that if you put them together, that you will be able to form a corps, but I haven't yet figured out what the critical thing to look at is.

Thanks in advance.

SNAFU

[Cardinal Ape]

Wow. Somehow you got really off track. You coulda been home hours ago...

All you need to form a corps is a 2 star general that is within the command range of the army you wish to attach to. The general can't be leading a division or an army, (you can also use 3* as corps commanders) then you can drag and drop divisions into the corps just like you would with an army.

[major snafu]

Hi CA,

Thanks for the response. Yep, really in the weeds on this one and I did some additional searching on the forum and I found a great post by Captain Orso (who, BTW, should be on the very short list of people selected to write any future manuals for AGEOD games and NOT given a maximum page limit).

Captain_Orso's post:

"26 Jun 2013 10:40
The dates are:

Creating Divisions: 1861-Oct-01
Creating Corps: 1862-Mar-01

To create a division with a leader:

It must be the 1st of October, 1861 or later.
The leader cannot be the commander of an army, a corp, another division--of course--, nor combined with a brigade.
The leader must be activated--has the light beige envelope at the top left corner of his unit's picture-frame, and on the Unit Display when clicked.
If the leader meets these requirements, click on the leader and then on the Enable Division Command button to the left of the Unit Display in the Special Orders section in the Tab with the Tent.
You must now maintain at least one unit in your newly formed division. If you leave a Division Commander alone without any units and execute a turn, the division will be disbanded.
To add units to a division left-click on the division and then cntl-left-click on the unit(s) you wish to add to the division and either click the Combine-Units Special-Orders button or press <cntl><c>
To break-down a division to it's constituent units, left-click on the division then click on the Split-Unit button or press <cnlt><d>.


To create a corp with a leader:

It must be the 1st of March, 1862 or later.
The leader must have obtained the rank of Maj. Gen. or greater.
The leader cannot be the commander of an army, or another corp, nor combined with a brigade.
The leader is NOT required to be activated, but if Hardened-Activation rules are in affect, the leader must be unlocked.
The leader must be within the Command Radius of the Army Commander/HQ.
If the leader meets these requirements, click on the leader and then on the Attach Corp to Army button.
Your Corp status is maintained as long as you wish, regardless of if the corp is empty or not or within or outside the command radius of any army HQ or not, with one exception:If you transport a corp with Real-Transports™, either riverine or oceanic, the corp with be disbanded leure:.
Ergo, if you want to invade with a corp, your invasion coastal/river region must be within the command radius of an army HQ. As soon as you drag-n-drop the corp commander from the transports to plot his move, you can recreate his corp, but only if he is within the command radius of an army HQ.
The army HQ may be on a transport to facilitate this."

So, armed with this information, I restarted the 1862:West scenario.

The starting date is Early Feb, 1862.

I see that in Montgomery, TN there is the Army of the Ohio and two corps (left Wing and Right wing). The corps both show the diamond in the group tab and the popup calls them corps.

Question 1: How if there can be no corps in the game until 1862-Mar-01, then how can these corps exist? Or is it that the date only apply to the grand campaign and the various scenarios can ignore these dates?

The fact that they do exist led to my expectation that I can also create corps. But I now think that this may be part of the reason I cannot when I am rearranging the forces under Grant in Henry, TN.

In Henry, NT there is the Army of the Tennessee (Grant) and 6 divisions, each with 1 divisional commander. There are no other generals in Henry.

There I had gone wrong before, but Cap-Orso's post has straightened me out is that to be able to form Corps (come March) I will need to pull apart all 6 divisions (already been practicing that) and then remove divisional command from at least 2 of the 6 (in preparation for them becoming the 2 corps leaders) and then recombine the remaining forces into 4 divisions and other stacks (Arty, Cav, supply) and then using the two freed up generals to become the corps commanders.

I think I have this straight now? Any comments on the above most welcome, especially if I am still misunderstanding a step.

Regards,

[Rod Smart]

You seem to have it straightened out, but I'll add something that I have come across:

You can't create corps using locked units. If you want to create a corp consisting of locked units (may be useful for all those locked units in Alexandria and DC), take the two star out of the stack, promote him to corp command, merge him back with stack with locked units.

[ArmChairGeneral]

In the 1862 West scenario you can form Corps from he start. The scenarios each use their own Corps formation rules, the dates in the manual are the rules for the two Grand Campaigns.

To form a Corps you simply need a 2 or 3 star general close enough to an Army commander (for Grant this is like 5 or 6 regions). He cannot be combined with a division or brigade. The Form Corps Special Order will then be lit. Sometimes the option is a little buggy when there are other units in his stack; try dragging him out of the stack into the region, which will create a new stack with just him in it and the button should light up, then drop everything back into his stack after you have formed his Corps.

You know that a stack is a Corps because of the Diamond on the display. If you look on the bottom right while you have a Corps stack selected you will see at the very top of the right-hand info panel a small black diamond if it is a Corp. If you hover over the diamond it will give you info on which Army the Corps is attached to and what stat bonuses are being passed to him from his Army Commander.

[ArmChairGeneral]

You may not need a Corp under Grant to organize the troops in Henry. He can command at least five divisions on his own, and some of the six divisions you start with there are undersized so you can get rid of one or two and put those brigades into other divisions leaving you with a spare commander(s). When you click on a division, look at the panel on the far right that lists all of the elements in the division. A division can have up to 17 elements in addition to the commander, you want as many of your divisions as you can manage to have all 17 slots filled.

Don't forget that CTRL-Click allows you to select more than one unit at a time, this makes forming divisions a lot faster. So CTRL click the div commander and a couple of brigades so all are highlighted, then click the plus button and they will be combined into the division if there is room for them.

[major snafu]

@ Rod - thanks for that helpful tip!

@ACG: Thanks for the additional comments and suggestions.

Regards,

[ArmChairGeneral]

So, a Step by step: Load a new game of 1862 west.

Click grant on the map in Henry. The bottom part of the screen (the Unit Panel) Will show Grant, a loose artillery piece and a Signal unit and a hospital unit. Above the Unit panel are tabs for all the stacks in the region, they currently have names like Third Division, Reserve, etc. These are not actually divisions, they are just stacks that are named after the divisions that are currently in them.

Click on the tab for the Third Division. You see Lew Wallace. Click on his picture. This is the actual Third Division (as opposed to the stack he is in which is also called Third Division, but is jsut the stack name.) On the right a tall narrow window pops up listing all the elements in the Division. You can see Lewis Wallace is one of the elements, and that he is a two Star general. Click on the tent icon right above Wallace's head. Then click the big red minus button (CTRL-D is the keyboard shortcut) which will break the division apart into its constituent elements. Now the Create Corps button will light up. If you click it Wallace then becomes a Corps commander attached to Grant, and his stack becomes a Corps stack; anything put into his stack will be part of his Corps, and he can command roughly four divisions.

Next click on one of the units on the map in Clarkesville TN (one region to the right of Grant). Now you see tabs for Army of the Ohio, Left Wing and Right Wing. Buell commands the Army of the Ohio. Click the Left Wing tab, and you now are looking at a Corps commanded by Crittenden. On the far right there is a tiny gray diamond above the words Left Wing. Hover over this and a tooltip tells you that this corps is attached to the Army of the Ohio. If you were to send this Corps of to Henry, it would still be attached to Buell, and not to Grant, and so could not synchronize move with Grant nor MTSG to support him in combat. You would need to move the Left Wing to Henry, click the remove Corps button, then click the Form Corps button, and it will form a new Corps (probably no longer called Left Wing) under Grants command that can then synchronize moves and MTSG with Grant's stack.

You don't necessarily want to organize things this way, this was just a Corps formation walkthrough.

[Nikel]

So, armed with this information, I restarted the 1862:West scenario.

The starting date is Early Feb, 1862.

I see that in Montgomery, TN there is the Army of the Ohio and two corps (left Wing and Right wing). The corps both show the diamond in the group tab and the popup calls them corps.

Question 1: How if there can be no corps in the game until 1862-Mar-01, then how can these corps exist? Or is it that the date only apply to the grand campaign and the various scenarios can ignore these dates?

Must be an error in the order of battle, at Shiloh (6-7 April), the Army of the Ohio was still organised in divisions:

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t ... ;page=root

[major snafu]

There are divisions, but they are then organized into two corps.

So, armed with this information, I restarted the 1862:West scenario.

The starting date is Early Feb, 1862.

I see that in Montgomery, TN there is the Army of the Ohio and two corps (left Wing and Right wing). The corps both show the diamond in the group tab and the popup calls them corps.

Question 1: How if there can be no corps in the game until 1862-Mar-01, then how can these corps exist? Or is it that the date only apply to the grand campaign and the various scenarios can ignore these dates?

Must be an error in the order of battle, at Shiloh (6-7 April), the Army of the Ohio was still organised in divisions:

http://ebooks.library.cornell.edu/cgi/t ... ;page=root

[Nikel]

Yes, I know in the game they are, but that not seems to be historical.

[major snafu]

Hi AG. Thanks for making the time for the extra assist.

After I form Wallace's corps per your instructions, I also notice that the icon to remove divisional command is also available. What is the result/benefit/loss of removing this? Why would you want for Wallace to retain it?

Also, I assume that the 'loose' units in the corps would be much better served being added into other divisions where they would gain the benefits thereof.


I understand about moving the corps and switching to another army. I am tempted to ask what if the area of two armies overlap when you form the corps - but I would suspect that seniority of the army commander may come into play and who knows how often this will happen in actual play.

Again, thank you!

SNAFU

So, a Step by step: Load a new game of 1862 west.

Click grant on the map in Henry. The bottom part of the screen (the Unit Panel) Will show Grant, a loose artillery piece and a Signal unit and a hospital unit. Above the Unit panel are tabs for all the stacks in the region, they currently have names like Third Division, Reserve, etc. These are not actually divisions, they are just stacks that are named after the divisions that are currently in them.

Click on the tab for the Third Division. You see Lew Wallace. Click on his picture. This is the actual Third Division (as opposed to the stack he is in which is also called Third Division, but is jsut the stack name.) On the right a tall narrow window pops up listing all the elements in the Division. You can see Lewis Wallace is one of the elements, and that he is a two Star general. Click on the tent icon right above Wallace's head. Then click the big red minus button (CTRL-D is the keyboard shortcut) which will break the division apart into its constituent elements. Now the Create Corps button will light up. If you click it Wallace then becomes a Corps commander attached to Grant, and his stack becomes a Corps stack; anything put into his stack will be part of his Corps, and he can command roughly four divisions.

Next click on one of the units on the map in Clarkesville TN (one region to the right of Grant). Now you see tabs for Army of the Ohio, Left Wing and Right Wing. Buell commands the Army of the Ohio. Click the Left Wing tab, and you now are looking at a Corps commanded by Crittenden. On the far right there is a tiny gray diamond above the words Left Wing. Hover over this and a tooltip tells you that this corps is attached to the Army of the Ohio. If you were to send this Corps of to Henry, it would still be attached to Buell, and not to Grant, and so could not synchronize move with Grant nor MTSG to support him in combat. You would need to move the Left Wing to Henry, click the remove Corps button, then click the Form Corps button, and it will form a new Corps (probably no longer called Left Wing) under Grants command that can then synchronize moves and MTSG with Grant's stack.

You don't necessarily want to organize things this way, this was just a Corps formation walkthrough.

[ArmChairGeneral]

After I form Wallace's corps per your instructions, I also notice that the icon to remove divisional command is also available. What is the result/benefit/loss of removing this? Why would you want for Wallace to retain it?

For a Corps commander Division command is irrelevant. Div command goes away on its own if you hit the turn button without them being combined with another element, so Wallace's div command will disappear on the interturn if you don't attach anyone to him. Intentionally removing div command is an artifact of the previous version of the game where you had a hard limit to the number of divisions you could field; CW2 doesn't have this limit, so it isn't important to remove div command.

What IS important, is that you can only form a new division with an active commander. When you break apart a div with the red minus button or CTRL-D, the commander retains his divisional commander status whether he is active or inactive, so you can reorg an division even if the leader is inactive (although you cannot reorg him if he is fixed in place as a result of your activation settings). So, if you are re-orging a stack and you accidentally click remove div command on an inactive leader, you cannot then re-create that division until a later turn when he becomes active, which can be a big problem if you don't have another active general on hand. General rule, don't click remove divisional command since there is no reason to do so and there is a potential downside.

Also, I assume that the 'loose' units in the corps would be much better served being added into other divisions where they would gain the benefits thereof.

Yes, absolutely, they should be put into other divisions. There is almost no good reason to have loose combat units in a stack if you could instead form them into a division. (Artillery are fine to leave loose in a stack, they are considered support elements not combat elements. Do a search on artillery organization if you want to know more, a lot has been said about it that is outside the scope of this post.)

I understand about moving the corps and switching to another army. I am tempted to ask what if the area of two armies overlap when you form the corps - but I would suspect that seniority of the army commander may come into play and who knows how often this will happen in actual play.

Yes, it goes to the most senior/closest. It is sometimes troublesome when two armies are too close together since you will not have control over which army a new corps attaches to. It comes up a fair amount actually: at the start of 1862 West Grant and Buell are too close together, while as the CSA you might prefer Beauregard to be the Army commander rather than AS Johnston, but since ASJ is senior no corps will attach to Beauregard until ASJ moves away or you take the NM hit to remove his Army command.