New Player - more questions on tutorial 1

[major snafu]

Hi all,

I am hoping to glean some answers here:

1) How do you create a named save game? What I mean is if I am at the beginning of turn 3 (on the tutorial) I want to create a save that will, if I mess up my orders and the beginning of turn 4 has issues (again with the tutorial) that I can load the save game and be back at the beginning of turn 3?

I tried using the in game save, and I saved the tutorial at the beginning of a turn, then Grant didn't make the move to McNairy and I wanted to load back to the beginning of the turn. but when I loaded the game back, it was the beginning of turn 4 that loaded. So I am not sure how the save game mechanism really works.

Without this, if something goes out of sync with the tutorial, I have to start from the beginning every time.


2) having solved my fleet and riverine movement issues, now have become bogged down in tutorial 1 is the following way.

In my first attempts, when I couldn't get the fleet to deliver the troops, Grant would cross the river into McNairy every time without a problem, and the Cooks corps would also arrive in McNairy (once I figured out how to correctly specify the riverine movement).

Now, in the last three tries, I can get Wallace's troops to McNairy every time without a problem, but Grant will not arrive (he never moves from his position and it appears that the move order is cancelled as it doesn't appear at the beginning of the next turn) 100% of the time and it is uncertain that Cooks corps will arrive in McNairy. 2/3s of the time he arrives as expected and 1/3 he ends up on the west side of the river with a 1 day movement left to get to McNairy.

Now all of that would not be a problem in that I can try to rectify this in the next turn, except that this then puts my actions out of sync with the instructions from the tutorial which is not so easy to rectify.

If I knew the answer to number 1 above, at least I wouldn't have to re-start the tutorial from the beginning each time.

So please help me to understand what I might be doing incorrectly. I feel like I am following the tutorial instructions to the letter, but not seeing the results that the tutorial is assuming are 100% certain in outcome.

Regards,

SNAFU

[principes romanes]

1) To go back a turn, there is actually another trick that might be helpful. If you go to load a game, you can Ctrl-click on the game you want to go back in . You can then click on the little black rectangle at the top right (the mouse over calls it saved game manipulation). You can then go back a turn. That will also let you rename games.

Te saved game manipulation of going back a turn does just rewind a turn, so you lose everything you did on the most recent turn. If you want to actually create a copy with another name, so that you have branching saves, you would need to open your saved game folder on your computer, create a copy, and then rename the copy using saved game manipulation so that you know it is a different version.

2) I haven't pulled up the tutorial to actually check, but it could be that Cook is inactive some of the time, which would give him a movement penalty. You could try adjusting the activation function under settings to see if that changes anything. That doesn't sound like it explains Grant's problem though.

[major snafu]

@pr: Thanks. I will try the saved game manipulation. I am pretty sure I saw this in one of the many posts in the forum, but I could not come up with the correct search term to find it.

If I can now keep repeating the same step using the above, then perhaps I can sort out what I am not doing correctly

I used the game settings that were suggested in another thread for a new player. I would have said that if the tutorial required certain settings for it to play through correctly, that they should be enforced (or at least explained) in the tutorial itself.

Anyway, on to the next step in the learning ladder.

I am currently at a loss to explain Grant not moving. He is activated. The plotted move indicates 6 days from Madison to McNairy. But when I resolve the turn, Grant never moves from Madison. If I then replot the move for Grant and resolve another turn, he moves as expected (but now the tutorial is not in sync with the position of the units).

I can repeat this again and again with no change in the outcome. I have even tried the Forced March and Grant still remains in Madison.

So there must be some check that is failing.



SNAFU

[principes romanes]

You're well on your way to figuring it out.

I tried a few runs of the turn of the tutorial to see if I could figure out what the problem was. Even playing with the activation setting I couldn't make McCook show up late. I sort of think that activation may be automatic in the tutorial.

I note though, that if McCook moves by land, it is supposed to take him 16 days to get there. It may be that he didn't get his orders to move by boat. It is a bit hard to watch how McCook actually moves, but if you have the setting under media under options for 'focus on move' set to high you may stand a chance to see if he's moving over land or by boat (the focus is mostly on your opponents moves, and usually that is more useful). The buttons in the game are often 'sticky' so it may not always register when you ordered him to use boat movement. The boat movement will have an orange/red outline when it has registered that you've clicked on it (not always easy to see, either).

I had an idea for why Grant isn't moving but I'm not sure if it makes sense. If there is an enemy force in the region, it can prevent you from moving to another enemy controlled territory. If Bragg's force is still in Madison at the start of the turn it *may* prevent Grant from moving to McNairy. The problem is, this hasn't actually blocked Grant's movement for me. If the Grant problem only happened once, it could be you accidentally cancelled his orders - it happens to the best of us.

[major snafu]

@pr: Thanks again.

I edited my previous post before I saw this.

The defeated force is still in the region at the beginning of the turn and it shows the entrained icon.

This is true for every run of the tutorial I have done so far.

Grant will not move per the 6 day plotted move. I am at a count of 8 times now (your tips makes it much faster to review a step) and Grant hasn't moved once. I even tried the forced move a few times and that didn't result in Grant moving either.

I think the McCook issue is all on me. I was correctly specifying the riverine, and the path changes accordingly, but I think a few times I clicked on another region border by mistake.

Is there a game setting that I might have changed that would increase the likelyhood of Grant not moving if there is another force in the region?

SNAFU

[principes romanes]

I'm guessing that the problem is that Bragg is blocking Grant from leaving, and that you've ended up with an unusual battle result from the previous turn that allows this to happen.

In the version I ran, Bragg only had PWR 16 or so, so I think he was beaten pretty badly and was in passive posture (just to the left when you click on a unit are two little squares that are green, blue, orange, or red - they indicate posture, I think that's covered later in the tutorial). In passive posture, he will let Grant leave without a problem. If Bragg still thinks he can fight, he is likely in defensive posture and can block an enemy force from moving into an area that the Confederates control (McNairy probably has about 90% Confederate Military Control and 10% Union Military Control). You can partially check this if you click on Grant's stack and move the cursor over the little circle at the bottom of the information panel in the bottom right corner. It will tell you about evasion and patrol values, but more usefully it will tell you if there is a military control restriction on which regions Grant can move into. (I say partially check this because Bragg may be in passive posture at the start of the turn but the AI could order him into defensive posture, so it isn't a perfect test).

If you want to just avoid the problem to finish the tutorial, I'd recommend going back another turn to redo Grant's attack on Bragg and see if this problem comes up again. If it does, you could simply send Grant directly to McNairy instead of following the tutorial instructions to attack Bragg.

[major snafu]

@pr:

I just found a work-around (a crazy a this is going to sound).

I played the tutorial again, up to the beginning of the turn where Grant didn't move to McNairy. I then saved and did the load trick are reversed the previous turn.

Then I deleted the plotted move for Grant.

The I re-plotted the same move for Grant.

Then I processed the turn.

Grant then moved as expected.

Could there be a check of flag that is failing during the normal process of events that, due to Bragg's presence at the beginning of the turn, Grant will not then make a plotted move? But when revert the turn, delete the plot and re-plot the move that this flag is no longer checked/valid/etc.?

I am going to re-run the tutorial from the begining, but this time I am going to plot, delete and re-plot Grant's move to McNairy and see if it goes through the first time.

But that will still leave me with the nagging question as to why I am needing to do this.

SNAFU

[Captain_Orso]

I haven't played the tutorials since their original beta testing, so can't really say anything about orders for which stack to move from where to where by what ever method. One thing similar I remember happening to me--and maybe this has nothing to do with the tutorial--has to do with ZOC, which is not like in many hex-board based games where ZOC is from one stack's hex into neighboring hexes. In AGEod games ZOC has to do with each sides control of regions, patrol and evasion values: "You cannot enter a land region if the (enemy patrol value/friendly evasion value) > (your military control + (2 * friendly evasion value)) in the region you want to move into." Source: Explain Zone of Control....

I've had, coincidentally also Grant's stack, stuck in the Columbus, KY region for a turn, because the CS sent a strong cavalry stack into the region, which using the above formula, with the cavalry stack's very high police value, and Grant's stack's low evasion value, caused his move to be blocked.

What is very unfortunate is that because cavalry has such a high evasion value itself, and they are inherently stealthy, often you don't see the enemy cavalry moving into your region, even though they block your movement, and the game doesn't give you notice of this occurring. Maybe there's a message in the messages box stating that Grant's stack was blocked in Region-X, but I don't 100% recall if that is reported.

[principes romanes]

Maybe there's a message in the messages box stating that Grant's stack was blocked in Region-X, but I don't 100% recall if that is reported.

Now that you mention it, I recall occasionally seeing messages like this so I think one should receive such a message when this happens.

And thanks for the link to the detailed ZOC explanation. I just knew it happened occasionally.

[Captain_Orso]

About Named Saves, AGEod games doesn't have this concept. When you start a Game Scenario, the Running Scenario is given a name determined by that Game Scenario. If there is already a Running Scenario with that name, the new Running Scenario has a progressively higher number assigned to it.

You can change the name of these Running Scenarios in the Load menu, as principes romanes stated, but still all the Saves of this renamed Running Scenario are a linear representation of the game. The physical structure of the Saves files and folders is

.. \(1) My Documents \ My Games \ CivilWarII(2) \ CW2 \ Saves \ Running Scenario Name \ Backup1 thru BackupX

(1) Spaces next to '\' are to enhance readability only and are not actually in the path.
(2) Is actually the name you gave to the installation folder when you installed the game. You can have multiple installations (except for Steam purchased games), but each must have a unique name.

When you start a scenario, this structure, less the Backup folders, is created in your Saves folder, and an history file is written: '..\Running Scenario Name\Running Scenario Name.hst'.

Each time you click on the 'save your turn...' button in the upper-right corner, an orders file is written:
'..\Running Scenario Name\Running Scenario Name_FAC.ord', where FAC is the 3-character abbreviation of the faction you are playing; USA or CSA in this case.

When you rename a Running Scenario, the Running Scenario Name folder and all files in and below that folder are renamed to reflect the new Running Scenario Name you assign to it.

When you click on the 'Proceed to Next turn' button in the upper-right corner of the map, an orders file is written, and turn execution starts, the hst file, your ord file, and the ord files created at that time by the AI for factions the AI controls are moved to Backup1. If Backup1 already exists, it is first moved to Backup2. If Backup2 exists, it is first moved to Backup3, etc.

Because of this structure and the way the game works, there is no game mechanic to do what you wish, to create a Named Save, to which you can go back. The simplest thing you can do, if you wish to go back to a previous turn, it to go into the Load menu, select your Running Scenario, click on the computer chip icon in the upper-right corner of the Load Game window, and click on the 'Restore a previous turn' icon, the one with the curved arrow. This will delete the files in the '..\Running Scenario Name\' folder, move the files from Backup1 into the '..\Running Scenario Name\' folder, and from Backup2 into Backup1 etc. Then you can change your orders and re-run the turn.

WARNING!!: Restoring a previous turn always deletes however many executed turns as times you click 'restore a previous turn'. It's a one way street! The only way around this is to make manual copies of the files and their folder structures and manipulate these manually, and you are responsible to do this correctly.

So, within these constraints and rules, you may be able to do what you are intending, but it may also require extensive file management on your part.

BTW there is one other way to manipulate Running Scenarios. You can manually make a 'break-out' of a Running Scenario. Basically you make a copy of a Running Scenario folder, with all it's content, and rename it.

EG You are playing a Running Scenario named 'Grant in the West'. Using the file manager of your choice, navigate to '..\My Documents\My Games\CivilWarII\CW2\Saves' and copy the 'Grant in the West' folder to 'XXX'. Now go into the Load menu. You will find you have two Running Scenarios named 'Grant in the West'. Rename one as per above to what ever name you choose. Now you have an exact copy of the Running Scenario under a new name.

[major snafu]

@CO: Thanks for the comprehensive explanation. This is sort of like trying to keep track of save files in Dwarf Fortress, so I am okay with it now that I understand the structure.

SNAFU