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BigDuke66
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Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:36 am

Hi
I wonder if it's possible to promote multiple generals in the same turn without running the risk of passing one over.
I got 2 generals(Meade & Doubleday) and the pop-up for Doubleday mentions that his promotion would pass over Meade, but what if I promote Meade in the same turn? Would he still be passed over?
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principes romanes
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:50 am

My rough impression is that you would end up with both Meade and Doubleday getting promoted, and whichever general is next in seniority after Meade taking the seniority hit (and costing you VP and possibly NM). I've promoted two generals at once before which resulted in the stated general taking the seniority hit (along with VPs) plus one other surprise general. I would need to test it a bit, but I think it is also the more senior general who gets promoted first (at least in the message log).

As another aside, I've noticed that the game often tells me the wrong general who will take the seniority hit when there are two at the same level. Somehow this often happens to me the first time that Meade and Scofield(?) are in play.

As an aside, it's an interesting interpretation by the designers that Doubleday was promotable. I assume their argument is that he would have gotten promoted if Meade hadn't killed his career by relieving him of corps command at Gettysberg.
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Durk
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:07 am

Similar experience here. It is always risky to promote a general at the same time as the general who would be miffed.

Never had the wrong general presented for promotion.

Doubleday is a total favorite for command of the Army of the Potomac. Me and a few others.

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Captain_Orso
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:08 pm

I think you guys are getting some things mixed up. There is only a penalty for 'passing-over' if the leader you are promoting has a lower seniority than another leader of the same rank.

In the example, BD66 posted Meade and Doubleday may be promoted. Apparently Doubleday has a lower seniority than Meade, because the game warns that if you promote him over Meade, there will be a penalty. BD66 reported nothing about a warning for Meade.

Does this mean that if BD66 promotes both at the same time, there will be no penalty? No, if there is a leader between Meade and Doubleday in seniority, there my be a penalty for promoting Doubleday over this leader (the game does not take into account that Meade is being promoted and look for the next leader below Meade. You would have to do that manually.

Is it absolutely certain, that promoting Meade and Doubleday at the same time, that there will be no penalty? I would say no, but probably not. If the game doesn't promote from the highest rank-n-seniority to the lowest, there would be a chance of coincidentally promoting Doubleday first and then Meade, which could trigger a penalty for promoting Doubleday over Meade, even if it were for only the fraction of a second.

Am I sure of how the game does it? No. BD66 try it out and we'll know at least in this case what happens.

BTW if there is somebody between Meade and Doubleday the messages will tell you who triggered the penalty, even if you don't seen them now.

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BigDuke66
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Wed Dec 28, 2016 7:48 pm

Mh, what to do with those generals that you are forced to pass over?
I got some 2 stars I want to promote but Edwin Sumner has to be passed over, although his seniority is at 1 I still can't promote him what likely means I will never be able to promote him.
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grimjaw
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:23 am

RE: Sumner, he only has models for brigadier and major general, so if he's already at 2-star that's as far as he'll go.

Isn't there something in the seniority/promotion calculation that says the passed-over penalty comes into play if the seniority difference in the closest two affected generals is greater than about four?

Examples:

General A has seniority of 10 and is not qualified for promotion. General B gains enough seniority points to qualify him for promotion. General B's seniority before promotion is 11. If he's promoted under that situation, there's no penalty?

General A has seniority of 10 and is not qualified for promotion. General B gains enough seniority points to qualify him for promotion. General B's seniority before promotion is 20. If he's promoted under that situation, penalty is incurred.

I thought that's how I remember it working, but I could be wrong. If what I listed above is the case, then if multiple generals are all within 4 seniority points of each other, the penalty wouldn't be incurred? Or am I remembering this all wrong.

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Captain_Orso
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:26 am

IIRC what the formula calculating the passing-over-penalty contains is the political and seniority values of both leaders. Their differences determine whether a penalty is assessed and how high. If the differences are too small there is no penalty. I don't recall seeing any reference to leaders who cannot be promoted, but I do wonder how Sumner got to that seniority. IIRC when he is auto-promoted to **gen his seniority drops to around 16.

grimjaw
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:17 am

I wasn't specific enough in my previous post. I think the calculation takes into account the difference between the general being promoted and the general with the highest seniority at the same rank. I was also curious about whether this takes into account generals who cannot be promoted to a higher rank, like Sumner in this case. If there's a penalty for that, I think it should be changed. I did a little work trying to test it, but I didn't find out anything before I had to move on.

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Durk
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Re: Promoting generals in the same turn without passing over?

Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:53 am

With generals at the same seniority level there is no penalty, or a nominal one.

Generals who cannot be promoted are not figured into the calculus. You can always check, I most often do, by going to each general listed as a higher seniority.

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