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Jerzul
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Location: Germantown, MD

Injuries and MAGIC!

Fri Jun 17, 2016 3:56 pm

So in my current PBEM with Wraith. My southern friend decided that in order to aid his re-taking of New Orleans he would order a drive-by of my position with his river fleet.

No major damage done...except for one thing.

Nathaniel Banks was in NOLA as an army commander. I had no corps attached to him yet, so he was alone in the city (theoretically recruiting loyalists to the cause). He apparently stubbed a toe while diving for cover and was declared injured. Then my army commander was transfered to another city to "recover"

Where was he transfered to?

WASHINGTON, DC.

Yep. So the guy it took me three turns to transfer down to NOLA was instantly teleported to DC from Louisiana. To rub salt into the wounds he wasn't even locked for a full turn. He is fully "recovered" and ready for duty. Except that he's 1,500 miles from his station.

Sometimes this game boggles my mind!
I have heard, in such a way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the army and the government needed a dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain success can be dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship.

-Abraham Lincoln, 1863, in a letter to Major General Joseph Hooker.

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Gray Fox
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Location: Englewood, OH

Fri Jun 17, 2016 4:35 pm

Are you using the FUBAR mod?
("F"ed Up Beyond All Recognition)
:)
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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Jerzul
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Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:10 pm
Location: Germantown, MD

Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:30 pm

I wish I could blame that one on bad modding. But alas no. The only mods in the game were the addition of a couple of new generals and removing the event taking out Samuel Cooper.
I have heard, in such a way as to believe it, of your recently saying that both the army and the government needed a dictator. Of course it was not for this, but in spite of it, that I have given you the command. Only those generals who gain success can be dictators. What I now ask of you is military success, and I will risk the dictatorship.



-Abraham Lincoln, 1863, in a letter to Major General Joseph Hooker.

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Captain_Orso
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Fri Jun 17, 2016 5:56 pm

Now that's something that has never happened to me :wacko: .

The wound-code always tries to move the wounded leader out of the battle region, to a friendly controlled, close-by region with a city. Since you apparently have no other cities in or near Louisiana, and New Orleans has an ocean harbor, I guess all other cities with ocean harbors are considered equally distanced valid targets, the same as for naval supply.

I've tested once, what happens if all nearby cities are enemy held, and thus invalid targets, when a leader is wounded, but the city in the region where the battle took place remains friendly controlled, and the leader is simply put inside that city. So being able to use naval supply appears to open that up.

So, although I think it does follow that logic of the code, it does feel kind of buggy ;)
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Pocus
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Location: Lyon (France)

Thu Jun 23, 2016 4:20 pm

Might be that. Or that through OMBs the distance (counting in links only) is not that big?
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Wraith
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Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:09 pm

What are OMBs?

johandenver2
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Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:52 pm

Wraith wrote:What are OMBs?


Off map battle?

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Wraith
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Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:40 am

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Teatime
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Fri Jun 24, 2016 2:23 am

Off Map Box :sherlock:

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Captain_Orso
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:34 am

Pocus wrote:Might be that. Or that through OMBs the distance (counting in links only) is not that big?


If only accessibility of a target location is taken into account, it could occasionally lead to some very weird occurrences, like a wounded leader landing in California :blink:

If links are being counted, it begs the question of why one of the forts in the Gulf wasn't picked. They should be the closest in links, but maybe only actual cities are taken into account.

But from a logical standpoint, since, from my understanding, the wound occurred through a bombardment, and there are no enemy troops in the region at all, forcing the wounded leader to be evacuated does not feel like the right thing to do. This completely ignores the fact the evacuation is instantaneous and immediately puts the wounded leader in a location, for he would otherwise require an actual naval unit and at least some amount of travel time.

Besides, in some specific cases, removing, for example, an army commander with corps under his command to a distant coastal city, and locking him there could have very harsh and unrealistic repercussion for the player.
- He cannot return the wounded leader to NOLA until he has 'healed'.
- There is no contingency in the game for another leader to take over as at least an acting army commander in the actual commander's absence.
- The player transferring the command of the army to another leader could cause serious NM and VP costs. This really breaks the concept of political influence, because it would be very difficult to argue for not replacing an army commander, at the very least temporarily, if he cannot fulfill his duties.
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Wraith
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Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:40 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:the wound occurred through a bombardment, and there are no enemy troops in the region at all,


There are troops in the region. I've a strong Corps formation sitting defensively in the area hoping that if Jerzul tried to move at all, it would force a battle on my terms.

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Captain_Orso
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:01 pm

Wraith wrote:There are troops in the region. I've a strong Corps formation sitting defensively in the area hoping that if Jerzul tried to move at all, it would force a battle on my terms.


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Wraith
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Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:01 pm

Yeah. What's wrong? We had a battle, then my forces didn't leave... I don't think that I lost either.

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Captain_Orso
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:52 am

Image Sorry for being so grumpy. That's not really directed you you personally. You just had the honor of being the messenger.

It's really, really frustrating trying help somebody on this forum, and trying to make heads or tails of a situation, and then finding you that important information has been withheld.

It reminds me of a joke.

The chief dispatcher of the metropolitan bus service in New York City gets woken by a telephone call early one morning:
Dispatcher: ..mmyeah?
Driver: Boss, I can't drive my route today.
Dispatcher: Why not?
Driver: I can't back out of the parking space.
Dispatcher: What? Why?
Driver: I can't adjust the left hand mirror so I can see behind me.
Dispatcher: Did you break your arm or what?
Driver: No boss, my arms fine.
Dispatcher: Then open your window, adjust your mirror and back out, you dork.
Driver: I can't open the window boss.
Dispatcher: What? Why the hell not?!?
Driver: The bus is laying on it.

Image
Image

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Wraith
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Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:04 pm

I move a fleet and an army into Iberville, during the bombardment that my fleet does, I manage to drop a cannonball onto Nathaniel Bank's foot.

The CSA stays in the area, the CSN leaves, the USA/USN are still holding NOLA and the fort he built but the US Army commander leaves because he got a boo boo and moves to DC and unlocks instantly. What about the foregoing information alters the balance? The city remains US controlled (high loyalty to US, high military control) and so the presence or lack thereof of my forces should not alter the fact that Jerzul's Army Commander wound up in DC for no reason.

I fail to see why the mere presence of hostile troops alters the balance for any reason other than as a check which might be the source behind this error.

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Captain_Orso
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Location: Stuttgart, Germany

Mon Jun 27, 2016 3:04 pm

The muddled point is, whether Banks was wounded by the bombardment, or my an attack of ground troops.

The game rules have always been that if there is a legal retreat route and a 'nearby' city, a wounded leader will be sent there to recuperate.

The unusual part is that Banks was sent back to Washington. Why Washington? Nobody knows for sure.
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Gray Fox
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Mon Jun 27, 2016 5:09 pm

This is what is in the Wiki:

http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/Leader_death_and_recovery_parameters

I guess D.C. was less than 12 regions (sea zones)?
I'm the 51st shade of gray. Eat, pray, Charge!

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Captain_Orso
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Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:13 pm

I count 16 regions (Start: Washington -> Potomac River, etc. -> Atlantic Shipping OMB -> Caribbean OMB -> Gulf of Mexico OMB - NOLA). New York City would bre far closer in a count of regions, because you don't have all those pesky river regions.

Remember, travel time and count of regions have nothing to do with each other, other than coincidence. Jumping from one OMB to the next costs 5-10 day, but it's only a 1-region jump.

The two parameter which I guess might influence to where a wounded leader is sent, from their names and comments, might be:

cbtLdrShortRedeployDist = 3 // max dist in regions for short check
cbtLdrLongRedeployDist = 6 // same for long (don't go above 12)

How those might work, I can only guess -- 'Short' and 'Long' RedeplayDist .... Image

:confused: Not sure how you come up with 12 regions, do you have a hint for me? ;)
Image

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Wraith
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Tue Jun 28, 2016 8:02 pm

My question is why there are two different variables (a short and a long) when it should simply check once or check a step-through: "Am I wounded?" -> "Will I be healed by end of turn?" -> "Are friendly forces controlling town? (if previous check returned false) -> Stay or Go.

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