Need Some Help with the Confederacy

[Xeja1]

So ive played two PBE games against a friend of mine now and ive handily lost both. In fact both were certain losses for me before Corps even activated in 1862.

He used two techniques in these games that i dont really understand how to counter and would like some help with.

First off, i dont know how, but he spawns 3 units of partisans in SW Texas in September 1861. Despite me chasing them across trans Mississippi with 2 units of Calvary a handful of Texas militia and a bunch a rangers; literally all of Texas is burned along with 3/4th of Indian territory, Arkansas and all my holdings in Missouri.

I have no idea how to stop this, his partisans outrun my Calvary and rangers, often crossing 5 or 6 provinces per turn and capturing 2 or 3 cities and forts per turn. Worse yet, in about 75% of cases my cities and forts never spawn garrisons despite having high loyalty, yet seemed to always spawn garrisons to fight me, costing me tons of manpower to spawn more militia to hold down sieges. When my Calvary did connect, they were easily wrecked by his partisans.

Second, he tends to build up a large force in Cairo and St Luis and hold them there until Grant spawns. Once Grant is around, he brings a gunboat fleet down from the north somewhere and forces my gunboats to dock (this is before any of my starter ironclads launch). He then sails his 2 3000 point armies down the Mississippi using Riverine transport, gets fired on by my forts, which only costs him an 8th of his strength total, and takes by assault either New Orleans, Vicksburg, or Memphis the moment he lands on the beach. He uses the supply the city generates, which is enough to easily survive, and ties down everything i have out west, allowing him to easily walk into Nashville and the deep south with a 3rd force.

i dont understand what to do. I lose the Far West because i cant get any supply over there with all my forts burned down in Texas and Oklahoma, and i lose the Mississippi because he can just sail his guys in barges past two island forts without any penalty, forcing me either to give up 2 major cities or try and defend everywhere with enough solders to hold off an assault by a 2 or 3 thousand point army. Also i dont understand how the depot in Memphis allows him to receive replacements when it cant even get any outside supply. Do they parachute them in?

PS: sorry for my anger, im just frustrated.

[Gray Fox]

Welcome!

Any time that the Union player wants to fight somewhere other than Richmond, thank him.

You need to build an army under Beauregard to take Washington as soon as Divisions are ready in Oct. 1861. If the Union player ignores your threat, then crush him. If he sees what you are planning, then he will be on the defensive until well into 1862. Good luck!

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?39245-So-Washington-D-C-is-secure-right

[Xeja1]

Interesting strategy, but if youre sitting on Washington isnt he just going to cut your depot off in fredricksburg with a divison and move mcdowell by boat to assault Richmond? He can supply by sea through Hampton roads and you would be stuck starving in Washington. I wouldnt think Washington makes enough supply for a 3600 point army

[Gray Fox]

If and when you take D.C., it takes 50 NM from his side and gives them to you. If that doesn't end the game with a Victory for the CSA, then it puts his combat power in the toilet because low NM affects cohesion, etc. Of course, you still do all the other smart things like defend your capital and other places. The point is to put pressure on the Union ASAP to defend and not use you as a punching bag.

[Xeja1]

Any tips for a non rush-washington game? Its is possible to even survive past 1862 as the confederacy? By 1862, i get outmaneuvered in the west by him tanking the river forts, and in the east he walks 2 3000 point armies a turn into P.T. and takes 3 to 1 casualties but takes another city from me each time.

Should i just abandon the west and move all my good leaders out east, just leaving my stock troops to delay?

[RebelYell]

Any tips for a non rush-washington game? Its is possible to even survive past 1862 as the confederacy? By 1862, i get outmaneuvered in the west by him tanking the river forts, and in the east he walks 2 3000 point armies a turn into P.T. and takes 3 to 1 casualties but takes another city from me each time.

Should i just abandon the west and move all my good leaders out east, just leaving my stock troops to delay?

You will always have to threaten DC, even if you are just demonstrating, this is 101 for CSA.

What was the condition of your fort batteries in Mississippi? They start out depleted and need replacements. Dont buy them, put your most important forts for green green posture for the first turns to get them at full strenght.

Use Memphis and NO as mustering points for your troops in the West, you should always have strong forces present in those.
Especially him using the magical riverine movement he should be slaughtered landing against your entrenched troops with batteries.

For the partisans use the Rangers if nothing else catches them.

You know you can target a specific enemy stack by drag and drop?
I think even combining the Rangers with 1-2 cavalry regiments should catch his partisans and kill them fast.

[RebelYell]

What is P.T??

[Xeja1]

What is P.T??

Oh sorry. Its Beauregard. Me and my friend just call him P.T. for short since his name is often written as P.G.T. Beauregard or P.T. Beauregard.


The forts are full strength, he always moves when Grant unlocks. For instance in the game i surrendered yesterday, Grant and his 3500 point stack took 75 hits on the first island fort and 56 hits on the second island fort. He dealt 2 back to the first fort and 0 back to the second.

He took Memphis from me with an assault on the same turn which had the stock garrison and 2 militia units that i built in it. He captured the batteries and took 150 casualties in the assault. He was super low on Org for one turn, but he used the depot to reinforce and next turn had ~1500 points and the turn after that was back up to 3500. i never stood a chance.

ive played this game for 300 hours and never knew you could drag and drop on an enemy stack to chase them lol I knew you could follow a friendly stack that way, but never an enemy stack. The last 3 weeks have been my first time ever playing PBE though, so a lot of this is new

[Jerzul]

What are some of the game settings you guys are using? Do you have historical attrition? Traffic rules?

You should check out this thread if you haven't already: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?43086-Points-to-Know-CSA

[Xeja1]

Historical attrition, small traffic penalty, medium activation penalty (the notch before it prevents you from moving).

I have read that thread, it contains a lot of good info. The problem im mainly having is that ive before most any of that comes into play. Like digging in at fredricksburg with your army and corps doing MTSG. How can i do that when Richmond has been taken then? lol Or Memphis and New Orleans has already fallen to river transportation from Cairo.

The 1861 counter invasion is a good idea, but unless im in a tournament or something it seems rather cheap. Although i might use it now to get revenge for my losses against my friend. haha

[RebelYell]

Historical attrition, small traffic penalty, medium activation penalty (the notch before it prevents you from moving).

I have read that thread, it contains a lot of good info. The problem im mainly having is that ive before most any of that comes into play. Like digging in at fredricksburg with your army and corps doing MTSG. How can i do that when Richmond has been taken then? lol Or Memphis and New Orleans has already fallen to river transportation from Cairo.

The 1861 counter invasion is a good idea, but unless im in a tournament or something it seems rather cheap. Although i might use it now to get revenge for my losses against my friend. haha

You should read some AARs to get an idea of the Northern Virginia theater.
Threatening to take DC is not cheap, it is essential to the war effort.

Where is he attacking P.T? In Manassas? What is the size of your armies in Virginia?

[Gray Fox]

In RL, after the first battle of Manassas, Jeff Davis ordered an assault on D.C., but the army was too disorganized chasing yankees all over northern VA. It's a historical reality. Also, Lee sent Early to threaten D.C. as a diversion.

[RebelYell]

In RL, after the first battle of Manassas, Jeff Davis ordered an assault on D.C., but the army was too disorganized chasing yankees all over northern VA. It's a historical reality. Also, Lee sent Early to threaten D.C. as a diversion.

62 and 63 MD campaigns could be counted as a direct threat to DC if they had resulted in victories.

Btw, do you know the CSA forces that where present in Fredricksburg, Culpeper and around Richmond in 63 when ANV moved up the valley?

[Cardinal Ape]

In both games your opponent moved Grant down the Mississippi using riverine movement? If he does this again you need to make him pay for it!

You say this all goes down before ironclads? Does your opponent's fleet contain just gunboats? Has he built any timberclads? Maybe you can build two or three cottonclads early to win the river. If you can intercept an army moving on a river with your fleet you can do massive damage.

[Mickey3D]

Your opponent is using an interesting strategy I was considering to test.

A few ideas that could help you:

- You can add entrenched artillery batteries along the Mississippi : they can fire on the passing fleet when entrenchment level reach 5 (do not forget to give them the bombard order). They will add new hits to the ones delivered by the forts.
- Build an entrenched defense force in the possible objectives (given the size of Grant's force I would say at least a division). Keep it outside the city so when the ennemy force will attack it will suffer from the landing penalty.
- Early in the game the CSA can build a sizable fleet by concentrating ships from Mobile, New-Orleans and Memphis as well as building a few new ships. It can intercept your opponent while he is moving down the river. Grant's fleet is not delivering a lot of hits on the forts, this could mean the force is mainly made of transports.

[DrPostman]

- Early in the game the CSA can build a sizable fleet by concentrating ships from Mobile, New-Orleans and Memphis as well as building a few new ships. It can intercept your opponent while he is moving down the river. Grant's fleet is not delivering a lot of hits on the forts, this could mean the force is mainly made of transports.

I assemble all my river ships (except those in Norfolk) in Memphis and use them in
an attack with Polk on Cairo as early as possible. I usually succeed in taking it.

In this case a fleet that big would destroy most of a Union fleet trying to invade.

[Xeja1]

Yeah he builds a couple timerclads in St. Luis right at the start of the game. He just tanks the river forts with his timberclads on attack sweeping aside my gunboats, with his army using the riverine movement pool right behind. I do normally concentrate my fleets, even the ironclad from norfolk, i just dont normally have time to finish building them.

I usually spend about 3/4ths of my resources building units in the east, so Johnson and Beauregard usually hit max army size around February 1862. I take 2 full turns spending all my war supplies enacting the 2 iron works decisions so my early cannon building is a bit low, but i feel this pays off for me over the next 2 or 3 months.

My major question in the east is how do i effectively defend the river crossings before Corps and MTSG? Should i entrench divisions in the cities in order to delay until Beauregard moves in to push them out?

Btw thank you for all the help guys! Building some 20lbs to put in the river forts to buff them up seems like a great idea, much more efficient than stacking a division in each Mississippi port i want to hold. I might do an ai disabled test to see how many i need to ensure i sink a 3000 point force.

[Gray Fox]

Initiative is held by one side in a war. The side with the initiative dictates what's going to happen next. The side without initiative then must catch up. The South in 1861 and most of '62 should have the initiative because of better leaders (three good 3-stars to start and then Lee). If you surrender the initiative, then your friend will continue to push you around as he chooses. If he has two 3k power stacks in the West, that's like half of his total number of Divisions. He can't be defending D.C. that well or anywhere else. Most Union players think that they can pwn the CSA. You've got to be aggressive. Yes, you still have to know how to build defenses. A few of the stockades garrisoned by a Division can create a line of strongpoints that will stop an invader by locking them into a Zone of Control (ZOC). Artillery entrenched can rip into passing ships. However, you've got to put together a stack of your very best troops to grab the Union by the throat and then shake vigorously. He can't be strong everywhere. Probe with your cavalry, threaten his supply lines, at least make him think that you are going for D.C. Gaining the initiative is the best defense. Good luck!

[Rod Smart]

As stated, push everything you have into DC. Make a big giant stack of everything you can gather, and by the turn after PGT and Joe Johnston unlock, you should attack Alexandria. Don't wait until divisions and corps, just pile everything into a big stack and have your elite early infantry beat the tar out of McDowell and his green troops.

As for the west, if he's taking the Mississippi Highway, that means he's not taking the Cincy to Bowling Green to Nashville highway, and he's not landing troops by sea. That is good. He was going to come south eventually, getting a bunch of free punches in is nice. You have Hardee and Bragg as trainers out west, put them with a division of cheap militia in Memphis and NO, and have them sit there for a couple years.

Drag and drop onto the partisans. That way your chasing cavalry can move multiple regions per turn.