khbynum wrote:He ends up in Halleck's position, chained to a desk shuffling papers for the rest of the war. The field commanders are still crap, but they are now better coordinated so the war ends a year earlier.
If he takes command of the Army of the Potomac, the war ends 2 years earlier. AGEod never publishes this game.
Iced in, in NC, trying to amuse myself.
Edit: Hey, I just got promoted to major!
Serious cabin fever here.
" wrote:States such as Indiana offer[ed] twice as many volunteers as requested.
khbynum wrote:Sorry, Temgesic, I didn't mean to blow off your suggestion. I think that if given Lee's military genius early on, in addition to all the other advantages the Union had, the war would have been much shorter and the outcome never remotely in doubt. I'm sure the talented folks at AGEod could produce such a scenario, but I think the victory conditions would have to be really artificial to make it a playable game.
Gray Fox wrote:You would get Lee ordered to attack Manassas in 1861 with a POS Union army. He loses and gets fired by Lincoln. Then you get the same rodeo...if Jackson doesn't get shot by friendly fire.
Temgesic wrote:Wouldn´t it be of great interest if the makers or someone would make an ahistorical scenario where Lee actual accepts President Lincolns proposal of leading the Army to quell the Southern Rebellion?
Would certainly be an scenario which would be much interestingly
What to the people think about this?
Cromagnonman wrote:The only way for Lee to stay in the US Army was for Virginia to stay in the USA, and that was impossible with Lincoln's call for volunteers. So a scenario with Lee on the Federal side requires Lincoln to not call for volunteers, but to put down the rebellion with whatever Regulars he can gather, plus perhaps a handful of new "regular" regiments raised in response to the crisis, minimizing the use of Northern state volunteer regiments.
After ther Federal government's inevitable victory, slavery continues and the wholr mess is repeated in 10-20 years with more sanguinary results
Cromagnonman wrote:The only way for Lee to stay in the US Army was for Virginia to stay in the USA, and that was impossible with Lincoln's call for volunteers. So a scenario with Lee on the Federal side requires Lincoln to not call for volunteers, but to put down the rebellion with whatever Regulars he can gather, plus perhaps a handful of new "regular" regiments raised in response to the crisis, minimizing the use of Northern state volunteer regiments.
After ther Federal government's inevitable victory, slavery continues and the wholr mess is repeated in 10-20 years with more sanguinary results
Rod Smart wrote:Play with extreme randomization of generals. You might end up with Pope as a 7-5-6 or something.
minipol wrote:That's what I always do. It makes the game IMO more realistic. They didn't know in advance which general was good or not. They had an idea but it had to be battle tested
Durk wrote:Agreed. Lee never abandons Virginia. Different idea of loyalty than today.
hanny1 wrote:Its not based in reality.
Republican party manifesto explained secession is treason and will be treated as such. Before taking office Lincoln instructed Scott of his intentions, to retake by force all federal property in the States who had left, and to prepare to retake them all by force,its this impreachable action that put the orders in place that allowed the federal Garrison to move from its post in Moultrie to take Sumpter. It also refused to acept the USSC rulling that slavery was constitutionly protected over the entire Union.
hanny1 wrote:Its a scenario of the same kind of if AH was kind to jews, then Germany will do better. Republicans cannot be divorced from retaking the States who have left back by use of force, any more than Nazis have to persecute Jews, and VA has to secede because its membershi[p of the Union is based on its States constitution that expressly gives to it and every other State the right of secession, ( also there was only a citizen of a state, passports existed on a state level and any state could deny citizenship and so prevent aplication for citizenship to any other state, the naturlization an imigration act, gave to states who could be citizens, and the Union was made up of member states, you could only hold federal office if you were a citizen of a stte and had sworn a loyalty oath top that State, teh federal oath was to uphold the Constitution, agaisnt forgien enimies, teh word domestic was not in it in 61,)membership of the Union for VA was conditional, coerecion was the condition that VA seccedes over, and Lincoln has no option ( economicly and politicaly anhd militarily all require force) but to coerce.
hanny1 wrote:Yhere are a number of totaly unhistoric/implausable events already in game already,( the one about swearing loyalty to teh CSA is actually concerned with forgien aliens in the States who are not citizens of any State in N America, who have to take the loyalty oath to the state they reside in or quit the CSA in 40 days, tehy confiscation Act is another quiant one, insurection in law required conviction in a civil court, any property used in the pursuit of the insurection could be siezed during the insurection but had to be returned or full compensation paid if not post insurection, those individuals now had any propperty permentaly taken, and POTUS can tell you are in insurection and thats all th law requires, he would do ity again when states failled to ratify the 14th, thats insurection and allowed mil coercion to make them so ratify. Individuals in insurection also pay income tax at a+50% duty, voting in MY secession in 61 the first 10,000 voters using the blue paper to votre to secede were all arested by Butlers cpommand and held in camps, the electorate got the message and stopped voting to be arrested. lest not add to them.
hanny1 wrote:* Sam Houstin is not a plausable what if either, he had fought one secesssion war and won it, his objection to fighting another was that it was unwinnable.
"To secede from the Union and set up another government would cause war. If you go to war with the United States, you will never conquer her, as she has the money and the men. If she does not whip you by guns, powder, and steel, she will starve you to death. It will take the flower of the country-the young men."
khbynum wrote:Sorry, Temgesic, I didn't mean to blow off your suggestion. I think that if given Lee's military genius early on, in addition to all the other advantages the Union had, the war would have been much shorter and the outcome never remotely in doubt. I'm sure the talented folks at AGEod could produce such a scenario, but I think the victory conditions would have to be really artificial to make it a playable game.
Rod Smart wrote:Lee lost a lot the first year of the war.
- He lost West Virginia to McClellan because of his overly complicated cockamamie battle plans.
- Then the "King of Spades" dug in off the coast, with his plans being to allow the North to capture offshore posts, then defeat them once they moved inland. The North's only objective was to capture those islands and forts, not move inland, which means Lee gave up a lot of coastal land for free.
- Most of the seven days battles were tactical losses. Malvern Hill was a disaster.
hanny1 wrote:
* Sam Houstin is not a plausable what if either, he had fought one secesssion war and won it, his objection to fighting another was that it was unwinnable.
"To secede from the Union and set up another government would cause war. If you go to war with the United States, you will never conquer her, as she has the money and the men. If she does not whip you by guns, powder, and steel, she will starve you to death. It will take the flower of the country-the young men."
Captain_Orso wrote:
There is no definitive answer to whether the Southern states had a legal right to secede. The mass secession of southern states was also not the first time there was a threat of secession. Already in 1786 the question was raised. See Shays’ Rebellion. At that time the idea of its legality was not contested, but that does also not mean that it was legal.
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