cody31a
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Coastal Guns in a Corp?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:49 pm

First let me start by saying that I am very new to the game. Playing the Grand Campaign (slowly) and learning something new with every turn. And loving it!

Forgive me if this question has been asked before (I've searched the forum and not found it) but in my current campaign, playing as CSA, I have taken Alexandria and plan to leave Longstreet's Corp there to fortify and entrench, daring the Yankees to come on over and say hello. I am building a coastal gun and wonder if I can place it in Longstreet's trenches. Would having such an immobile unit prevent a possible retreat of the Corp? I don't want to trap my Corp there, stuck to an immovable object. Or would it retreat with the rest of the stack?

By the way, this forum is a wealth of knowledge, so thanks to all who post here.

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Gray Fox
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:14 pm

Welcome!

You can move coastal artillery, but they are really slow. So you should be able to retreat if need be.

That said, IIRC, locked immobile units (the ones with a red stripe) that can't leave a region will be unlocked if attacked. So if you have one in a stack, the stack should be able to retreat from a combat that unlocked the immobile unit.

Finally, if a unit is under construction in a region and is therefore locked, then your forces will retreat and the unfinished unit will be lost or captured.

By the way, this forum benfits from new players with great questions.
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cody31a
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:24 pm

Thank you very much. I appreciate the info. After reading through this forum, I gather that most people seem to think that creating coastal guns for the CSA is a waste of resources. But since I'm flying by the seat of my pants anyway, I figured I'd take shot and plant one with Longstreet in his trenches and see how it plays out.

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Gray Fox
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:30 pm

Captain Orso posted to me once that the coastal guns don't fire at land targets. I've never built them, so I can't confirm this. Good luck!
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:31 pm

There is one scenario I have found that they are useful. Building a redoubt at Norfolk and filling it with coastal guns and a reasonable garrison (one division + Signals) can create a situation where any monitors or the like the Union has built become completely worthless due to an inability to proceed South along the coast without suffering severe damage from the forts guns. Such a redoubt also makes much more difficult any Union player's attempt at outflanking one's trench lines in NVA by landing South and East of Richmond. The effectiveness of this strategy can be further maximized by concentrating as much of your navy as possible in the Carolinas, particularly armored ships, to engage the weakend fleet once it passes. I affectionately call such a strategy "The Death Star" and if a Union player sends a fleet by I tend to send them the relevant star wars quote:

"Now Witness the Firepower of this Fully Armed and Operational Battle-Station!"
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cody31a
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:39 pm

Ah, I see. I suppose I should have asked if coastal guns could hit land targets. I had just assumed that they could be pointed at any target that attacks them.

But now that you mention it, I suppose that wouldn't make much sense. They are "coastal" artillery after all, meant to hit ships. If I recall, in real life, most of Sumter's guns were pointed out to sea, and were useless during the Confederate bombardment.

Hmm, perhaps I should rethink my placement of this big guns. Perhaps Norfolk, sort of like Projekt Pasha suggests. Thanks guys!!

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Gray Fox
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:17 pm

Actually it is unfortunate. Lee had two huge Naval guns with him at Gettysburg. A slow rate of fire made them ineffective.
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:23 pm

they will slow down your retreat.

If you play as the Union, you've probably lost a battle at Cairo, and then faced the decision of whether to detach that coastal gun from the stack and give it to the enemy, or leave it in the stack and see what happens during the 42 day retreat.

-----------------------------

don't waste time building coastal guns. If you happen to capture it, send it somewhere useful, such as the aforementioned Norfolk idea. Or one of the forts near New Orleans, that's a tasty target.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:38 pm

Gray Fox wrote:Actually it is unfortunate. Lee had two huge Naval guns with him at Gettysburg. A slow rate of fire made them ineffective.


That's news to me. Could you provide a reference, please?

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:50 pm

When I played SPI's Gettysburg, I had a Naval gun unit in the Confederate OOB. I'm sure that Gary and crew did their homework, but I'll see what I can find online.
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cody31a
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:08 pm

Oh wow, I had no idea Lee had anything like that with him during that campaign. Might have been useful if he somehow found himself threatening Harrisburg or Baltimore. But on the field, I could see how they would be too difficult to drag around and put into position. And slow to fire, as you said.

At any rate, I have now rethought putting the guns with Longstreet in Alexandria. I think I may place them somewhere along the Mississippi. The Yankees managed to float a stack right past me and all the way to Little Rock. Now I have a big blue thorn sticking me in Arkansas. I don't want that happening again.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:16 pm

Gray Fox wrote:When I played SPI's Gettysburg, I had a Naval gun unit in the Confederate OOB. I'm sure that Gary and crew did their homework, but I'll see what I can find online.


Gary? Gary Grigby? SPI or SSI? Gary Grigsby didn't do Gettysburg (SSI). Now you have me curious.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:27 pm

It's been a while. I'm not sure of the proper name. It was the board game that covered about 2 square meters of map space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrible_Swift_Sword_(game)

I guess it was Dunnigan and Simonsen, not Grigsby. I played so many back in the day.
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:01 pm

Yes, Richard Berg for SPI. I loved that game and all the spin-offs, from "Bloody April" (Shiloh) that made the game even more complex by adding in fatigue and ammo use to the several smaller games based of the same system that were published in S&T magazine. I learned BASIC by writing a bookkeeping program for the Apple II to help me keep track all those data and determine combat results. Good times. I'm hoping the soon to be released "Brother against Brother" will be a computer reincarnation of those great games.

I don't recall any naval guns in the Confederate OoB, but then the old wet drive doesn't spin as fast as it once did.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:20 pm

because I had to look it up:
http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/ConfederateMar/Ross.php


Ross's (Georgia) Battery (The Sumter Artillery, Company A)
One Napoleon
Three 10 Pounder Parrotts
One 3 Inch Navy Parrott
One 12 Pounder Howitzer

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:59 pm

Rod Smart wrote:because I had to look it up:
http://www.gettysburg.stonesentinels.com/ConfederateMar/Ross.php


Ross's (Georgia) Battery (The Sumter Artillery, Company A)
One Napoleon
Three 10 Pounder Parrotts
One 3 Inch Navy Parrott
One 12 Pounder Howitzer

Image of a 3" Navy Parrott, also at Gettysburg. Somehow I imagined it would
be bigger:
http://civilwartalk.com/threads/wingfields-battery-at-gettysburg.87081/
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Prussia
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:37 pm

Gray Fox wrote:It's been a while. I'm not sure of the proper name. It was the board game that covered about 2 square meters of map space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrible_Swift_Sword_(game)

I guess it was Dunnigan and Simonsen, not Grigsby. I played so many back in the day.


Yes Terrible Swift Sword- one of the first monster games iirc. I would say Dunnigan and Simonsen. I'll check now.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:38 pm

It was Richard Berg with Simonsen on Art (art as in artwork not Artillery :bonk: ).

khbynum
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Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:15 pm

So, there was a naval Parrott at Gettysburg. The expertise of forum members continues to amaze me. However, a 3" Parrott is still a 10 pounder, whether it belonged to the Army, Navy or Boy Scouts. Lee did not drag "large naval guns" across the Blue Ridge Mountains.

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Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:46 pm

On the basis of the discussion in this thread, I started nosing around in Lee's usage of Artillery in ANV in hopes of finding more about the Naval weaponry used, and started with the state of artillery in the South in toto, and came across something interesting: the Williams Gun. This weapon was in production before the Gatling Gun; was most likely the genesis for the Gatling Gun itself, and was used in combat before the Gatling saw service, by Pickett's Brigage... need to get more info. Can't recall if there are Williams Gun's in the database, but if they are not, then something is quite amiss in the TOE in this regards- Gatling Guns are in the database. I'll get more info.

Thanks all for a great thread.

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Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:11 am

cody31a wrote:First let me start by saying that I am very new to the game. Playing the Grand Campaign (slowly) and learning something new with every turn. And loving it!

Forgive me if this question has been asked before (I've searched the forum and not found it) but in my current campaign, playing as CSA, I have taken Alexandria and plan to leave Longstreet's Corp there to fortify and entrench, daring the Yankees to come on over and say hello. I am building a coastal gun and wonder if I can place it in Longstreet's trenches. Would having such an immobile unit prevent a possible retreat of the Corp? I don't want to trap my Corp there, stuck to an immovable object. Or would it retreat with the rest of the stack?

By the way, this forum is a wealth of knowledge, so thanks to all who post here.


I would generally advise against putting any artillery, which you wish to use to bombard passing ships, into a stack with a leader, because if the leader becomes un-activated, that battery will not bombard.

If Longstreet is entrenched to level 3 or greater you can put the battery into Longstreet's stack and then immediately drag it off into its own stack in the same region thus maintaining the entrenchments which Longstreet has already built. And if you really want to give your battery every chance possible at doing damage, put a supply unit (2 elements should do) into the Coastal Artillery's stack to add 10% effectiveness.

Do not forget to give the battery the Bombard Passing Ships SO!!, and while you're at it, you might as well give the same SO to Longstreet so that when he is activated his entire corps will also bombard.

Of course if Longstreet's corps does have to retreat out of the region there is a good chance that your Coastal Artillery will also be put into retreat although they will not likely get far. The only way to get around this is by building a redoubt or fort and putting the Coastal Artillery, and of course your garrison, inside it. Then they will never retreat.

BTW: What the game is representing with 'Coastal Artillery' is emplaced guns such as Dahlgrens:
Image

BTW2: Depending on how much you want to invest in Norfolk, if you do build a fort or a redoubt you might also consider putting a battery of Columbiads instead or in addition to Coastal Artillery into your fort/redoubt. They bombard nearly as good--Coastals have better detection rating and will probably hit even passing brigs--plus they fight if your fort is assaulted or being besieged.
Image

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Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:36 am

In the Confederate context the coastal guns are probably Brooke Rifles, not Dalghrens. Not long after the war broke out Tredegar Iron Works invented a new process for building large rifled guns (since they did not have the equipment to do the parrot method) and the guns were named Brooke rifles after their creator. Made Primarily by Selma N.O.W. and Tredegar in 6.4 Inch, 7 Inch, and 8 Inch calibers, they were used both as naval guns and extensively as coast defense guns.

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cody31a
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Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:46 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:I would generally advise against putting any artillery, which you wish to use to bombard passing ships, into a stack with a leader, because if the leader becomes un-activated, that battery will not bombard.

If Longstreet is entrenched to level 3 or greater you can put the battery into Longstreet's stack and then immediately drag it off into its own stack in the same region thus maintaining the entrenchments which Longstreet has already built. And if you really want to give your battery every chance possible at doing damage, put a supply unit (2 elements should do) into the Coastal Artillery's stack to add 10% effectiveness.

Do not forget to give the battery the Bombard Passing Ships SO!!, and while you're at it, you might as well give the same SO to Longstreet so that when he is activated his entire corps will also bombard.

Of course if Longstreet's corps does have to retreat out of the region there is a good chance that your Coastal Artillery will also be put into retreat although they will not likely get far. The only way to get around this is by building a redoubt or fort and putting the Coastal Artillery, and of course your garrison, inside it. Then they will never retreat.

BTW: What the game is representing with 'Coastal Artillery' is emplaced guns such as Dahlgrens:


BTW2: Depending on how much you want to invest in Norfolk, if you do build a fort or a redoubt you might also consider putting a battery of Columbiads instead or in addition to Coastal Artillery into your fort/redoubt. They bombard nearly as good--Coastals have better detection rating and will probably hit even passing brigs--plus they fight if your fort is assaulted or being besieged.


Thank you very much for the clarification and instruction. I greatly appreciate it. I didn't fire up the game last night (couldn't pass up watching Better Call Saul) so I haven't made a move yet.

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Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:40 pm

Just checked and William Guns are indeed in the database- did not check to see if their arrival/availability date predates the Gatling Guns. Did notice that they are an exclusive CSA weapon thus the Union would not be able to capture them- definitely should be changed.

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Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:09 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:I would generally advise against putting any artillery, which you wish to use to bombard passing ships, into a stack with a leader, because if the leader becomes un-activated, that battery will not bombard.


WOW! You continue to amaze me with your depth of knowledge. It is would delight me to know how you coaxed this out of the game. :thumbsup:

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Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:57 pm

AACW {public beta} patch 1.16 Release Candidate 10a - January 13, 2012 #60

Through years of experience, many deep searches of the forums and standing on the shoulders of giants.
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Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:56 pm

You can see a Williams gun at the New Market ACW visitor centre in Virginia. It could fire 60 rounds per minute but was prone to overheating. The Confederacy commissioned and used a few batteries of them during the war.

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