RC9 weird combat results... again.

[Prussia]

Similar to some results that I had in the past with other RC iterations- but this time around the results are very perplexing given the results displayed in the images; plus the details not displayed: routed units for the Union 12 and 15 respectively with no routed units for the CSA; the CSA did not retreat either time, and remained in control of the battlefield; and in both cases the Union was on its way back to Harpers Ferry.

[ATTACH]33160[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]33161[/ATTACH]

For the second battle, you can see that one entire Union unit was wiped out, but in addition a Supply unit that cannot be seen in screen cap, is captured by the CSA... waiting with bated breath to get some of that Artillery that I know is there.

[Durk]

I am going to guess a bit and then you can clarify. Butler was not activated, but because the CSA held the region and Johnston was in defensive stanch, Butler activates to attack for a huge command penalty.
Even a leader with high offensive rating would be in trouble. As Butler is not you top drawer offensive commander, especially vs Joe Johnston's defensive ability - the Union forces are in trouble.
Only way out of the trouble he is in, select green/green for Butlers move out of the region.

[donagel]

sorry, off topic but I never have figure out exactly what the numberpad looking icon and associated number mean next to the heart. In the example above, Butler has heart 29, "numpad" 686.

[Prussia]

Hi Durk:

Actually I am the CSA; and in both battles I was in Defensive Mode/Standard Defensive Rules settings (HAAC doesn't seem to be worth the price); level 4 entrenchments in both the City and the outside defensive works.

So no way without reloading other side to tell if Butler was activated or not; the battles above are only the last two of 4 battles in a row started by the Union with disastrous results (in my opinion) for them, all resulting in my being labeled as being defeated, but in fact remaining to hold the region; solidly entrenched; in good supply; defensive works intact; generals being promoted (the 5th battle in this sequence was declared a CSA victory)...; nominal losses; nominal cohesion hits; and in fact capturing Union Supply carts (wanted the Artillery); rails, depot, and city intact; though region is considered to be pillaged; troops gaining experience; and entire Union troop units annihilated in toto in some cases or severely mauled in others... and appearing to be in process of retreat. In fact on the third turn they did finally leave the area.

So given all the above and Union losses being 12,353 vs. 2625 CSA losses; and 12 plus 15 or 16 Union units routed vs. zero CSA units routed; and 1000's of Union prisoners and much SU captured vs. zero captures inflicted on the CSA, how on earth could this be considered a Union victory? Almost of Phyrric proportions- close but not quite... yet. Soon the area will have level 5 defensive works; and if the Union is inclined to bullhead their way repeatedly there I'm not going to complain.

I'm trying to cut rail lines everywhere that I can, in hopes of reducing the supply flow to the Union in DC and Harpers Ferry (can't do much re. MC... have to keep staying one step ahead of them)- have units almost to New York city; and the Union is starting to bleed off units going after my cavalry, most of the time unsuccessfully, though I have lost a few cavalry units here and there. The one that hurt was the total loss of the Laurel Brigade- one of my favorite units (with all sub-units with historically accurate names)- ouch. I think I goofed on some of the settings with that unit. Pay much closer attention now to the settings I use.

Hope that clarifies what happened.

Thanks for any insight you may have.

[Gray Fox]

The side that withdraws from the battle is chosen by a simplistic game mechanic as the "Defeated". I have several times had my garrison Divisions get assaulted where this happened. They are "defeated" even though I retain control of the city and inflicted three times the casualties. The side that is vastly outnumbered is more likely to withdraw, even if this means to fall back into their original trenches. It's like the scene in the movie "Troy" where the Greeks are chased off the field and then Eric Bana orders his men to return to the city rather than risk falling into a trap.

P.S. Donagel, the # with a number in the battle report represents cohesion loss.

[minipol]

I currently experience this as the CSA. I'm stationed on the banks of the river near Saint Louis.
Union attacks, I inflict a lot more casualties, however, the battle result says the CSA lost, but my troops remain in place.
I'm happy as long as I inflict more casualties

[tripax]

A couple things I don't see mentioned. One, it looks like in the first battle McDowell MSTGs in with a corps containing the 19th Division. Before these 224 hits (~5000 men?) arrived the battle was a bit more even. If you look at the rounds, you can see which round the 19th became engaged. Since the 19th didn't fight much (lose many hits or cohesion) it was probably late in the battle.

Two, I think that the retreat roll is made at the beginning of each round based on the relative power of the two forces and does not directly depend on how the battle went in previous rounds (except in as much as the previous rounds reduced the power of the two combatants). You had high cohesion but it fell quite a bit so your power was quite low after 3 rounds (in both battles this seems true). Since your generals have high strategic ratings, if they want to retreat the will generally be more successful doing so with less losses. If you tried to retreat under a weaker general, you'd more likely failed and been forced to fight a round or two with very low cohesion and greater losses followed by a more costly retreat.