penlin
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predicting fort bombardment?

Tue Jun 10, 2014 1:43 am

I'm learning the game still, especially the naval part. Sometimes, it seems a Union fleet can go past river/coastal forts without trouble. Other times, the bombardment from the fort is decimating. A few questions:

1) how to know exactly what sort of movement will trigger a bombardment? I've found this very tricky, especially around some of the major coastal cities (e.g. New Orleans, Charleston) with several small regions nearby with coastal forts.

2) how to predict how well a fleet will do during a bombardment? Sometimes, they seem to pass through with minor impact. Other times, it's major. Once or twice, the fleet has been almost completely destroyed.

3) is all of this working as intended? It seems that a commander would withdraw rather than follow my (stupid) orders that result in the total destruction of a fleet.

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Captain_Orso
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Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:25 am

penlin wrote:I'm learning the game still, especially the naval part. Sometimes, it seems a Union fleet can go past river/coastal forts without trouble. Other times, the bombardment from the fort is decimating. A few questions:

1) how to know exactly what sort of movement will trigger a bombardment? I've found this very tricky, especially around some of the major coastal cities (e.g. New Orleans, Charleston) with several small regions nearby with coastal forts.


Okay, I'll give a shot at this (pun completely intended :) ).

[INDENT]In the following the term ships refers to all naval vessels including all oceanic ships and all riverine vessels.[/INDENT]

Artillery inside a fort not in Passive Posture (PP) and not commanded by a leader which is inactivated (has a sealed envelope/brown envelope/"brownie") will always try to bombard passing ships. They will also exchange gunnery with ships, which themselves choose to bombard a fort, regardless of whether these ships are passing a fort or not.

What regulates "passing a fort" and whether the fort may bombard is the Double Adjacency Rule (DAR). If a fleet moves from one region, which is adjacent to a fort, directly into another region, which is also adjacent to the same fort, the DAR becomes effective and the fort can bombard the fleet within the above restrictions.
[INDENT]Note: if a harbor and its exit point are both adjacent to a fort, ships sailing into or out of the harbor can be bombard[/INDENT]
The forts I know that can bombard passing ships per the DAR are Fort Macon NC, Fort Caswell NC, Fort Pickens FL, Fort Morgen AL and Fort Saint Philips LA (not Fort Jackson, or it's the other way around; I don't remember which exactly right now). Passing any other forts along the southern Atlantic and Gulf coast will not trigger the DAR.

penlin wrote:2) how to predict how well a fleet will do during a bombardment? Sometimes, they seem to pass through with minor impact. Other times, it's major. Once or twice, the fleet has been almost completely destroyed.


How well a fleet will do bombarding a fort is very unpredictable. Never count on doing very much damage. You will not likely bombard a fort into submission. The main thing that will work against ships bombarding is lower than optimal cohesion, which will suffer from long moves before bombardment and receiving hits from the fort's bombardment itself.

Hits scored by a bombarding fort are capped at 50 hits per fleet. In Naval Combat (including bombardment) the firing guns will attempt to hit the biggest ships first. This does not mean that other targets will not get hit, just that the chances are much lower.

penlin wrote:3) is all of this working as intended? It seems that a commander would withdraw rather than follow my (stupid) orders that result in the total destruction of a fleet.


Unfortunately yes. Each bombardment is one round and within that round if a fleet is being decimated there is no mechanism to break off the bombardment by the fleet to save the damaged ships from being sunk. That would require rewriting the bombardment rules.

My Rules-of-Thumb for forts and bombardment and sneaking past forts are:
  • Never attempt to bombard with oceanic ships unless you have a huge number of them with as many armored steam frigates as possible with the fleet lead by a very good naval leader. There's no point to anything else.
  • The same goes for bombarding river forts with ironclads.
  • If you are trying to pass a fort on a river, always have plenty of IC's in your fleet to slough off hits that would otherwise hit smaller boats and transports transporting land units. Don't forget, supply will not pass forts with artillery mounted, so take enough with you.
  • Spare your fleets as much as possible, transport a good invasion force, land on the fort and fight the fort's garrison to submission.


Good sailing!

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Jim-NC
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Tue Jun 10, 2014 5:06 pm

One other thing. The forts "attempt" to fire at the ships which sail past (see Captain_Orso post above), and there is a % chance they will succeed. Not sure what the chance is, and it may vary by fort or artillery type. Thus, it's not a guarantee that your fort guns will hit the enemy ships.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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Captain_Orso
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Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:26 pm

True; although generally they do hit even if you try to evade them. Of course using Farragut will greatly improve survival, even for wooden fleets.

If I'm trying to bypass a fort I always set my fleet to defensive posture and avoid combat. I'm not actually sure if it works, but I do it anyway. I'll have to do some tests some time.

penlin
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Wed Jun 11, 2014 1:50 am

Thanks very much for the tips thus far. I just finished the East Theater scenario successfully (I admit I had Athena at the Private level of difficulty, which was a cakewalk), and I'm starting a full campaign with default AI settings. So, these tips will help a lot.

Thanks for the specific info on the DAR rule and what constitutes "passing a fort". It took a re-read and some staring at the map to understand, but I think I have it now. Your wording was precise and examples were helpful - it's simply not something I can process without having the game open. Another way to phrase "double adjacency" is when the fort appears to "straddle" to water regions?

Anyway, let me test my understanding with a few examples:
-it appears that Fort Morgan (on Mobile Bay) would bombard ships passing from Falmouth Beach into Mobile Bay and vice versa
-same goes for Fort Gaines, which would also bombard ships from Falmouth Beach to Jackson Shore and vice versa
-in my East theater game, I had trouble around Charleston when I had captured the city but not all of the coastal forts: Fts Sumter, Moultrie, and Johnson can all bombard ships moving from Charleston Bay into the Charles River and vice versa

To clarify, when I asked about "how well a fleet would do during bombardment", I was really thinking how well would a fleet survive as opposed to inflict damage. Still, some useful tips above. Also, now that I won't needlessly subject fleets to bombardment (knowing the DAR rule) will help tons!

Thanks again.

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