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pgr
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Money Problems

Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:56 pm

So I have a tendency to run into a big money crunch, and find myself desperately waiting for the chance to issue bonds and raise taxes. Any good strategies out there for raising additional $$$

(I'm thinking union. I use HB on my gold regions pretty liberally. Is building ammunition factories a viable way to increase the money base?)

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soundoff
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Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:08 pm

pgr wrote:So I have a tendency to run into a big money crunch, and find myself desperately waiting for the chance to issue bonds and raise taxes. Any good strategies out there for raising additional $$$

(I'm thinking union. I use HB on my gold regions pretty liberally. Is building ammunition factories a viable way to increase the money base?)


I have no sympathy whatsoever for you pgr. Its even worse for the South and quite frankly long may it be so for both sides :mdr:

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tripax
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Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:11 pm

Do HB cards run out? It seems so to me, and if so, waiting a few turns and using HB on only the most profitable regions (Northern California, New York) is more cost effective than using it on the less profitable. Moral has an effect, 1 moral point increases output by 1/2 percent in all cities, so never trade NM, the global stat, for loyalty. Also capturing nearby cities is good for loyalty...

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Highlandcharge
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Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:31 pm

Hi pgr, funny I usually run out of WS before money...

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Keeler
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 12:09 am

pgr wrote:So I have a tendency to run into a big money crunch, and find myself desperately waiting for the chance to issue bonds and raise taxes. Any good strategies out there for raising additional $$$

(I'm thinking union. I use HB on my gold regions pretty liberally. Is building ammunition factories a viable way to increase the money base?)


In my current game, I tried industrializing aggressively early on and am still running low on cash. Granted I have also tried a new division build which is sucking up much more money than I am used to, so it's hard to tell what effect the industrialization has had.

One thing I'd recommend is to play the loyalty cards on any industrial region you can, and not just the gold fields. There are a couple regions like New York, Brooklyn, Franklin (Ohio), etc which start at or below 75% loyalty. If you boost the loyalty you'll get some additional money and supplies. There's also cities like Baltimore, St Louis, and Washington which are all very low to being with and should be considered once the goldfields and more northern cities have been maxed out. And don't overlook some of the "Farmland" structures. Some of them put out a decent amount of money as well, so look into boosting loyalty in regions with them as well.

On a final note, both War Bonds and Raise Taxes were supposed to get an increase in the amount of money they gave in 1.03, but only one is working as intended (can't remember which one). Dev team said they were aware of it.
"Thank God. I thought it was a New York Regiment."- Unknown Confederate major, upon learning he had surrendered to the 6th Wisconsin.

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tripax
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:25 am

Keeler wrote:One thing I'd recommend is to play the loyalty cards on any industrial region you can, and not just the gold fields. There are a couple regions like New York, Brooklyn, Franklin (Ohio), etc which start at or below 75% loyalty. If you boost the loyalty you'll get some additional money and supplies. There's also cities like Baltimore, St Louis, and Washington which are all very low to being with and should be considered once the goldfields and more northern cities have been maxed out. And don't overlook some of the "Farmland" structures. Some of them put out a decent amount of money as well, so look into boosting loyalty in regions with them as well.


As a note, HB on smaller areas like Dayton (Columbus, Ohio) is a might be a waste since it raises loyalty less than 10%, and base money is 5 (depending on what you industrialize this could be different). Also, I think the computer rounds city income off and sums rounded region contributions to national income (money, WS, and conscripts). This needs to be considered a bit when maximizing money. Also if your WS is above 50 at the end of a turn, canceled contracts earn you 50 money at cost of 50 WS. For me, this only matters in early turns, when I have to make sure I don't industrialize, expand rail/rivers, and build WS heavy units in the same turn (or even do any two of those). But saving those 50 money early on can mean having 50 money in the bank later in the game.

Does anybody understand well how HB cards renew? My guess so far is that you get a finite number of successful plays of the card each year, and the number of cards per year drops off (goes to zero?) in later years.

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pgr
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:42 am

Keeler wrote:In my current game, I tried industrializing aggressively early on and am still running low on cash. Granted I have also tried a new division build which is sucking up much more money than I am used to, so it's hard to tell what effect the industrialization has had.

One thing I'd recommend is to play the loyalty cards on any industrial region you can, and not just the gold fields. There are a couple regions like New York, Brooklyn, Franklin (Ohio), etc which start at or below 75% loyalty. If you boost the loyalty you'll get some additional money and supplies. There's also cities like Baltimore, St Louis, and Washington which are all very low to being with and should be considered once the goldfields and more northern cities have been maxed out. And don't overlook some of the "Farmland" structures. Some of them put out a decent amount of money as well, so look into boosting loyalty in regions with them as well.

On a final note, both War Bonds and Raise Taxes were supposed to get an increase in the amount of money they gave in 1.03, but only one is working as intended (can't remember which one). Dev team said they were aware of it.


Ya I think I need to more aggressively play the loyalty game, that and perhaps be a bit less aggressive on industrializing. It sucks up a lot of $$$.

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Keeler
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 4:18 pm

tripax wrote:As a note, HB on smaller areas like Dayton (Columbus, Ohio) is a might be a waste since it raises loyalty less than 10%, and base money is 5 (depending on what you industrialize this could be different). Also, I think the computer rounds city income off and sums rounded region contributions to national income (money, WS, and conscripts). This needs to be considered a bit when maximizing money.


A good point, and one reason not to make these areas a priority for boosting morale. As you say it's something to pursue after industrialization (if these smaller areas industrialize, which I can't remember) or the other areas have been loyalized and/or you have VP points to throw around.
"Thank God. I thought it was a New York Regiment."- Unknown Confederate major, upon learning he had surrendered to the 6th Wisconsin.

G-Burg Bullet
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 10:47 pm

I'm sorry... "HB" cards? Habeas Corpus?

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tripax
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:12 pm

As for industrialization, most all buildings provide a base of 1 money (I think better buildings pre-exist, but aren't built by industrialization), which can be boost by loyalty and NM. I think all buildings are supposed to cost 50, but clearly they can average between 25,000 and 100,000. So, roughly, it can take a year to recoup a 25,000 money building, but 4 to recoup a 100,000 building (at 0% discount rate). So if your money crunch is less than a year in the future, you might not find any industrialization worthwhile, while if it occurs in 2 years, then 25,000 and 50,000 buildings are worth it. Also, if you have a WS crunch, ironworks give 8 WS, which convert 1:1 to money if you end each turn with enough WS. That said, as Union I build everything because I like to be slowed down at the beginning and I like to have the extra stuff at the end.

minipol
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:18 pm

Yes, indeed. As for the OP's question, try playing the CSA. Afterwards if you play as the union, it will be as if you're suddenly rich :)

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tripax
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Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:25 pm

G-Burg Bullet wrote:I'm sorry... "HB" cards? Habeas Corpus?


I hope so, that was what I was thinking.

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ArmChairGeneral
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Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:04 pm

Is there something the Union can do in the naval boxes? The CSA can build brigs as runners, although the payoff is variable and they can be sunk.

Don't Arsenals produce $2 and Armories only $1? I carefully evaluate the cost per building, what they will give me per turn, etc. to make sure I am getting the best deal. Some of the options are better than others for $ production. I try to avoid industrial options that will build in cities with loyalty or other issues (blockade).

I too have found Finding-and-Fixing to be the most cost effective way to increase production. In the region ledger (yay Ledger!) sorting by resource is quick and easy and it even shows loyalty so you know what can be easily fixed.

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Gray Fox
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Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:23 pm

Win battles. Every 2 additional NM points increases all of your production by 1% for as long as you maintain the additional NM. I got 8 NM from one battle alone. Hammer your opponents weak spots every turn and after a year you'll have a sizable advantage and be closer to victory than if you built industry.
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Q-Ball
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Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:06 pm

In terms of money, a few points:

1. I find the REQUISITIONS cards have a pretty low cost in return for what they bring. They lower loyalty, so use them on small towns. But they are good source of extra cash.
2. Same on PLUNDER. It really lowers loyalty, but who cares.....they probably hate you there anyway. It's harder to play, though.
3. For the south, the COTTON RGD cards are good source of cash, make sure you use them
4. BLOCKADE RUNNERS, I find, do a good job of bringing in WSU and CASH. I don't build tons as CSA, but you should deploy every brig, and allow the 1-ship Brig units to gain another Brig.
5. For the CSA, Industrial decisions are tricky. On the surface, they are all good, in that you'll get a return on the cash alone over the long haul. Ironworks are even better, but huge caveat on all of this: I wouldn't build anything on the coast, which really reduces your options. It's too easy for the Union to blockade and/or take that Industry if it's on the coast. Then, all you did was help your enemy......probably not what you wanted to do. For this reason, the most attracteive options are the ones in Carolinas and Georgia, simply because most of the builds are inland.

As the South, the limitations under 1.03 seem to be WSU and Money, depending on what you do, but WSU seems especially tight.
As the USA, WSU is never a limitation; the limitation is usually Money, sometimes recruits, but usually money

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Mickey3D
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Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:41 pm

In 1.03, with CSA, the first priority when industrializing is to build some Ironworks. They'll bring you much needed WSU. Then your only problem will be money but unfortunately there is no industrialization that will give you a good ROI for this resource.

planefinder
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Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:57 pm

Just in general, I really wish there were things that could be built via decision to increase money - I get not being able to build manpower, but being able to invest in some sort of money-generating structure would be great. Perhaps spend manpower and WSU to create?

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Pocus
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Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:16 pm

You can do that indirectly by increasing development level in regions producing already some money.
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planefinder
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Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:15 pm

Pocus wrote:You can do that indirectly by increasing development level in regions producing already some money.


Really? I didn't understand that relationship previously. That helps a great deal.

Q-Ball
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Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:38 pm

planefinder wrote:Really? I didn't understand that relationship previously. That helps a great deal.


I did this at Charleston and New Orleans; if you build a Telegraph, these regions gain 5 development, and become "Rich". That seems to give you a couple extra bucks a turn, well worth the expense. It may be hard to see that, since the cash take declines over time as the blockade % increases, but I think it's there.

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