Micah Goodman
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Questions of building units and region improvements

Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:56 pm

I have several questions,
First, I notice for example that while artillery is nominally available in places like Iowa you can't actually build any at the start of the game. Is it because I need to build industry in Iowa to do so? I noticed that a few turns into the game I have the national decision available that allows me to build more war related industries however, they are all in areas back east. Do you have to build the ones in the east before you can build ones in the West or Trans-Mississippi region?
Second, aside from the obvious VP gain what is the point in improving regions? I get that building roads and railroads improve movement and supply but why build telegraphs or clear region, or colonists or any of the other territory improvement decisions? The manual is useless on this topic.
Third, how many units are needed to build depots, forts, and redoubts? I look in the manual but again it didn't give specifics.
Thanks for the help.

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Pocus
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:50 am

hi,

Currently, you'll have to develop industries in some States before you can buy artillery and you don't have to buy an option before another arrives. Now, for the official patch we will probably abandon this constraint, the rational being that the place where the artillery arrives is the delivery place, not the production place, so artilleries will soon be able to be built in any city... Less complexity for everyone.

Improving development level in a region augments move speed, reduces attrition and allows some others decisions to be played, notably opening a track then a road.

Depots and forts: you need supply units and artillery units which are consumed in the process, and you use a special order for that. For Redoubt (iirc) this is done with a decision.
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Micah Goodman
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:38 pm

Pocus, thank you for responding. For depots and forts how many supply units and artillery units are needed for each? Thanks.

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Joe Wheeler
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:30 pm

[quote="Pocus"]hi,

Currently, you'll have to develop industries in some States before you can buy artillery and you don't have to buy an option before another arrives. Now, for the official patch we will probably abandon this constraint, the rational being that the place where the artillery arrives is the delivery place, not the production place, so artilleries will soon be able to be built in any city... Less complexity for everyone.



Pocus this makes good sense to me as long as the delivery times reflect distance from the manufacturing location. Shouldn't it take longer to have a cannon made in Pittsburgh to be delivered to St Louis than to Washington?

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loki100
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:41 pm

Micah Goodman wrote:Pocus, thank you for responding. For depots and forts how many supply units and artillery units are needed for each? Thanks.


a depot = 2 supply units, a fort, one artillery + one supply unit (there maybe extra restriction as to the type of artillery you could use)
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vonRocko
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Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:57 pm

Pocus wrote: Now, for the official patch we will probably abandon this constraint, the rational being that the place where the artillery arrives is the delivery place, not the production place, so artilleries will soon be able to be built in any city... Less complexity for everyone.


Hmnn.....I'm not sure about this, but if less complexity for the unwashed masses is needed, then so be it.

Micah Goodman
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Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:41 am

I actually like the concept of not building some units unless you invest in war industries. The only thing I would change about it is that instead of making the choice a purely regional one, i.e. Connecticut, New England, Mid-Atlantic I would make it more of a size based decision and have a massive choice that starts industries through out the country a middle choice, that covers much of the country but not as large as the first choice. And then a third choice that covered primarily New England. The larger choice would have industry from the Trans-Mississippi to the East the middle choice would cover just the west and the east and the smaller choice would cover just the east. I think the biggest problem with the concept of industry building in the game is the lack of documentation in the game manual. Most players (like me) were a little in the dark as to making the best decision because we had no idea what the consequence of our decisions were.

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Ol' Choctaw
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Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:24 am

The trouble was that Kansas, West Virginia, and Iowa had nothing to build, so their artillery could not be built.

The coding of alternate locations didn’t seem to be working out to well either, so this may have been the best way of doing it.

Building up your war industries is a good idea but we are building many industries in the game that were actually already operating at the start of the war. Not being able to build your units until you build particular industries (that were already there) is a step too far.

For the Union, I think the builds are to help loyalty which helps also recruiting. Or that was the plan, anyway.

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Ace
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Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:33 am

Currently, you'll have to develop industries in some States before you can buy artillery and you don't have to buy an option before another arrives. Now, for the official patch we will probably abandon this constraint, the rational being that the place where the artillery arrives is the delivery place, not the production place, so artilleries will soon be able to be built in any city... Less complexity for everyone.


I agree. Let's simplify the things in places where complicating it does not bring anything special. If we found out there is too much artillery in the far west, we can always lower numbers of recruitable batteries.

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PhilThib
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Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:48 am

We kept the wsu/industrial requirement for the heavy pices: siege arty, coastal batteries
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Captain_Orso
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Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:05 pm

The requirement of producing WSU was a nice idea in AACW-I. It added some flavor and strategy to the game. In CW2 the way it works doesn't fit into the scheme of things and it's causing more issues than it's worth.

In the end it would not restrict either side from putting artillery into the field in Missouri or Arkansas. Even if you couldn't build them there you could easily build them elsewhere and send them in. No big difference.

BTW to build a depot you need 4 supply elements. How many units you need to put those 4 together doesn't matter. They all must be =>50% in strength (hits, not cohesion) and have some supply. Since the supply phase is before the build phase, even if your supply elements are empty at the end of the last turn (when you order a depot to be built) they will probably have some supply by the time they start to build; probably ;) . Note: land supply units are very expensive compared to naval supply units compared to riverine supply units. If you can use riverine supply units to build your depot, use them. If you can use naval supply units, use those. If not you will have to bite-the-bullet and use the expensive land supply units. BTW2 harbors with a depot are excellent supply sources. There's a reason the war followed the major rivers nearly everywhere.

To build a fort, again you need 4 supply elements, but this time plus 2 batteries of artillery. The battery can be any type of artillery, even captured batteries; so use the cheapest ones you can get your hands on; generally 6lb-ers. Once you start building the fort, the units that you have committed to the build are returned to your build pool. You do not get the artillery in the fort; if you want artillery in your fort you must build and transport these in addition to the ones you use for building. The same goes for a garrison. Tip: Don't use captured artillery or supply units to build with. Once you have used them they are returned to the building faction's build pool.

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Chaplain Lovejoy
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Sat Oct 12, 2013 2:31 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:Tip: Don't use captured artillery or supply units to build with. Once you have used them they are returned to the building faction's build pool.


Is this a design deficiency to be fixed?

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Ace
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Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:17 pm

Recruit-able pools are large. The tip is not as important.

ancient seaman
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Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:33 pm

The 4 elements of riverine transport unit are not always capable to build you a depot,Montgomery and Little Rock are two city examples that you cant build a depot without a land supply unit

Njordr
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:00 pm

Captain_Orso wrote:BTW to build a depot you need 4 supply elements. How many units you need to put those 4 together doesn't matter. They all must be =>50% in strength (hits, not cohesion) and have some supply. Since the supply phase is before the build phase, even if your supply elements are empty at the end of the last turn (when you order a depot to be built) they will probably have some supply by the time they start to build; probably ;) . Note: land supply units are very expensive compared to naval supply units compared to riverine supply units. If you can use riverine supply units to build your depot, use them. If you can use naval supply units, use those. If not you will have to bite-the-bullet and use the expensive land supply units. BTW2 harbors with a depot are excellent supply sources. There's a reason the war followed the major rivers nearly everywhere.

To build a fort, again you need 4 supply elements, but this time plus 2 batteries of artillery. The battery can be any type of artillery, even captured batteries; so use the cheapest ones you can get your hands on; generally 6lb-ers. Once you start building the fort, the units that you have committed to the build are returned to your build pool. You do not get the artillery in the fort; if you want artillery in your fort you must build and transport these in addition to the ones you use for building. The same goes for a garrison. Tip: Don't use captured artillery or supply units to build with. Once you have used them they are returned to the building faction's build pool.


Playing with USA, I have an infantry brigate with two 6 lbs batteries and 4 sea transport ships (8 elements) in Norfolk, VA. I want to build a fort, but the option is grayed out.
What should I do?

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Mickey3D
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:45 pm

Njordr wrote:Playing with USA, I have an infantry brigate with two 6 lbs batteries and 4 sea transport ships (8 elements) in Norfolk, VA. I want to build a fort, but the option is grayed out.
What should I do?


As far as I remember you can't use batteries belonging to a brigade, you must use independant batteries.

Njordr
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Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:59 pm

Mickey3D wrote:As far as I remember you can't use batteries belonging to a brigade, you must use independant batteries.


Yes, you're right. In fact they were two independent batteries, included in the same stack of the (two regiments) infantry brigade. But the question remains.

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