Should I force the an end to the war between Great Britain and USA through script?

Poll ended at Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:21 am

Yes, it's ahistorical and compromises the campaign's realism.
22%
2
No, let's see where it leads.
22%
2
Give them more time, but end it if it goes on for a long time.
56%
5
 
Total votes: 9
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loki100
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:58 am

seems like both your wars are stretching you to the limit. One good thing about that impressive show of British force in China and Africa is it may mean there is very little left in the UK itself. Is it worth a gamble of an invasion using your last reserve army?

Watch out for all captured artillery (not just the final bit of a captured corps). Not only do they not upgrade but they count against your forcepools. May be less of an issue starting in 1880 but I ended with a load of early tech junk in the late game blocking me from producing modern artillery and had to take the VP hit for disbanding them to clear slots.
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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 7:14 am

loki100 wrote:seems like both your wars are stretching you to the limit. One good thing about that impressive show of British force in China and Africa is it may mean there is very little left in the UK itself. Is it worth a gamble of an invasion using your last reserve army?

Watch out for all captured artillery (not just the final bit of a captured corps). Not only do they not upgrade but they count against your forcepools. May be less of an issue starting in 1880 but I ended with a load of early tech junk in the late game blocking me from producing modern artillery and had to take the VP hit for disbanding them to clear slots.


Unfortunately I think I can't use my last reserves in Germany in such a gamble into Great Britain, if I did so the french could be convinced that they could invade Germany, and I would definitely colapse if the french enter this war, this war is really stretching me (sometimes even mentally as a player :bonk :) to the limit, although I can say that at least the russians have no more backbone to resist throughout this Summer, the war in Russia will be over within a month or so, they cannot hold anymore, their armies are in a pitful situation, only militias and partisans, they surprised us in our failed assault against Saint Petersburg, but then again it was only because they were fighing inside that huge fortification complex and I commited the mistake in trusting an assault could force them to surrender, but outside their "walls" their forces are in a really deplorable condition.

Well, thank you for telling me that about the captured artillery and those bits of corps, I think I'll have to take the vp hit, as I'm having to when I promote a clever commander over some inconpetent that has more seniority, I pay the prices for these things as I'm far ahead in prestige I think I can take it. But what about our own corps that lose elements? Do our reserves fill in those elements missing or will the corp stay always "truncated"?

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HerrDan
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Disastrous landing and a serie of battles in Saint Petersburg

Tue May 27, 2014 7:57 am

Our landing in Accra was a complete disaster, we suffered heavy losses and couldn't manage to establish a bridgehead there, our commanders Adolf von Götzen and Theodor Leutwein managed to escape the slaughter, but I wouldn't mind if they ended up captured after such a miserable failure like this one!

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At least our forces captured the Solomons islands from the british, an old source of conflict between our nations.
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In Saint Petersburg and Viborg a serie of small battles ocurred while the russian forces unsuccessfully tried to drive our forces out of Viborg using some of their last reserves in Saint Petersburg.
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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 8:02 am

Thre british have reinforced their positions in Lome and seem to be preparing an assault led by Sir George Grieves...
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HerrDan
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The last line of communication to Saint Petersburg has been cut.

Tue May 27, 2014 9:07 am

Tirpitz fleet keeps bombarding Saint Petersburg without giving relief and the last lines of communication has been cut, with the capture of Viborg. The end is near for Russia!

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A battle ocurred in Kaluga on the way to Moscow.

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HerrDan
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The Battle of Kiev

Tue May 27, 2014 9:58 am

Our 7th army commanded by our Prince Leopold von Bayern one of our best commanders, captured Kiew. The russians are in a hopeless situation and I'll now finally send the terms for the peace treaty, they have now no option but to agree.

The Battle of Kiew
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We're sending the terms for the peace, Finland shall be liberated by the russians, we don't want to impose any other transfer of territory that would make the russians seek a revenge in the future, although we're sure that they will do exactly that, but we are acting on behalf of the finnish people and in the name of world peace (cough...).

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Now the international situation is out of control, Great Britain declared war on the United States of America!?

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havi
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Tue May 27, 2014 11:38 am

Empire strikes back?! Maybe they will try re-colonicate US!

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Kensai
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Tue May 27, 2014 12:39 pm

If I understand the cards correctly, it was USA that declared war by playing that final (aggressive) card. It must be an ultimatum or mobilization. This means that the crisis spiraled out of control (as the description says) and there was no other option for the British.

But it was the Americans that pressed their hand. The "Just Cause", I think, goes to the USA in this case, reversed at the last moment. But I must read this again in the manual as I think they are the reverse of the "Domination"... The Prestige invested has been decreased in the final actions, too bad the Americans tried the hard way.
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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 5:22 pm

Kensai wrote:If I understand the cards correctly, it was USA that declared war by playing that final (aggressive) card. It must be an ultimatum or mobilization. This means that the crisis spiraled out of control (as the description says) and there was no other option for the British.

But it was the Americans that pressed their hand. The "Just Cause", I think, goes to the USA in this case, reversed at the last moment. But I must read this again in the manual as I think they are the reverse of the "Domination"... The Prestige invested has been decreased in the final actions, too bad the Americans tried the hard way.


I thought the cards played were on the leader's picture side. I don't know if I should let them go to war, it's a real pity to have this kind of ahistorical war.

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Jim-NC
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Tue May 27, 2014 5:30 pm

That would indicate that the Americans played the red card (as they are on the right, and the card is the on the right side of the pair). So they forced the issue, and got the intensity over 100 (it started at 60).

My other issue with this is it only tells you the division of the end PP pot. If you notice, at 1 point, the crisis was worth 9,882, but had shrunk to 5,064. So who got the other 4818?
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loki100
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Tue May 27, 2014 5:33 pm

HerrDan wrote:I thought the cards played were on the leader's picture side. I don't know if I should let them go to war, it's a real pity to have this kind of ahistorical war.


nah, let them do it. There were a few occasions in this era when they really fell out (if I recall the demarcation of the border of what is now British Columbia was one), I'd suspect if you dug around in the wierder literature of the era you'd find pamphlets from the equivalent of modern day 'think tanks' advocating war as unfinished business from the American Revolution et al.

I'm just jealous - I had a monumental hissy fit between them both (like when more than 1 of my cats wants the same sleeping place), but they just avoided war. It adds a nice bit of dynamism. I guess that since your US couldn't beat Spain, its not going to lead to much, even if the British are distracted by their war with you.
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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:08 pm

loki100 wrote:nah, let them do it. There were a few occasions in this era when they really fell out (if I recall the demarcation of the border of what is now British Columbia was one), I'd suspect if you dug around in the wierder literature of the era you'd find pamphlets from the equivalent of modern day 'think tanks' advocating war as unfinished business from the American Revolution et al.

I'm just jealous - I had a monumental hissy fit between them both (like when more than 1 of my cats wants the same sleeping place), but they just avoided war. It adds a nice bit of dynamism. I guess that since your US couldn't beat Spain, its not going to lead to much, even if the British are distracted by their war with you.


Yes I've read they had some deal crisis in history in the period, the most serious ones being in the demarcation of British Columbia (as you mentioned) and in the Venezuela crisis in 1895, but as I'm fighting the british it makes things too god for me to see Great Britain in another war at the same time, but as you suggested I'll let them do it. The american-spanish war was before I gave the AI a strong navy through that set of events, so at the time of the war with Spain the usa had probably a weak navy, besides unlike in the case with Spain, they share a border with Great Britain in Canada, so they can attack it through land, thus I'm not sure if the british have a good chance against them, it's gonna be interesting to watch.

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Kensai
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:18 pm

Jim-NC wrote:My other issue with this is it only tells you the division of the end PP pot. If you notice, at 1 point, the crisis was worth 9,882, but had shrunk to 5,064. So who got the other 4818?

These points increase and decrease as the nations implicated invest or disinvest in the crisis. In the end, they disinvested. What is curious is the fact that albeit the USA won by only 1 point of Domination it took 10 times more than the UK. But why did that happen? And shouldn't +1 mean the nation with more Prestige (UK I guess) have more Domination in the beginning of the crisis?

The crisis interface is so complicated. I wish we had the full-featured crisis system as originally advertised, including third-party involvement and all. If ever a Gold version of the game comes out, I have this top on my list. :)
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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:28 pm

Jim-NC wrote:That would indicate that the Americans played the red card (as they are on the right, and the card is the on the right side of the pair). So they forced the issue, and got the intensity over 100 (it started at 60).

My other issue with this is it only tells you the division of the end PP pot. If you notice, at 1 point, the crisis was worth 9,882, but had shrunk to 5,064. So who got the other 4818?


Surely not me :bonk:

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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:29 pm

Kensai wrote:These points increase and decrease as the nations implicated invest or disinvest in the crisis. In the end, they disinvested. What is curious is the fact that albeit the USA won by only 1 point of Domination it took 10 times more than the UK. But why did that happen? And shouldn't +1 mean the nation with more Prestige (UK I guess) have more Domination in the beginning of the crisis?

The crisis interface is so complicated. I wish we had the full-featured crisis system as originally advertised, including third-party involvement and all. If ever a Gold version of the game comes out, I have this top on my list. :)


That would be really wonderful, full-featured crisis system, and third-party involvement etc...that's my dream!

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HerrDan
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Tue May 27, 2014 6:44 pm

Btw Loki, I've "killed" Blumenthal (as you said it's not a good idea to be led by undead vampires in a war), but then no other general took his place, I'm afraid I'll be a little bit disadvantaged if no other general takes his place. Isn't there a way to force a general to "go to the field", I mean appear on the map?

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HerrDan
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Points for PON

Tue May 27, 2014 7:18 pm

Actually I did some research here and Blumenthal was still alive at the time of my game, he only dies in december of 1900. He should be retired since 1896, but as the war with Russia erupted it is very feasiable that he would be recalled for service, but anyway after his failed assault on Saint Petersburg I've had enough of him! So I don't regret my decision (although he had some really nice stats :( ).

PS: Btw thank you Kensai for your suggestion (that you sent me through pm), but I couldn't simply left Blumenthal in Berlin and I decided, by Loki's suggestion, to send him to a region and create an event to kill all units in the region, so his death is manly Loki's fault, I'm a very sugestionable person you know..., so when he told me I should kill him in an "empty" region I felt I had to do that. Sad thing is that the game didn't give me another 3 stars general to replace him :(

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HerrDan
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The Tsar last card

Wed May 28, 2014 12:17 am

In a desperate last attempt to breakout in Saint Petersburg, the russian army launches an offensives against the german forces besieging their capital. The poor-shaped russian soldiers fail to break the german lines and the offensive ends in another defeat that strikes the already low russian morale. While this our emmisaries are on their way to Saint Petersburg to discuss the terms of the russian capitulation. It's almost over now!

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HerrDan
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Our garrison in Lome check the british advance

Wed May 28, 2014 12:33 am

The british forces led by Sir George Greaves suffered heavy losses while trying to assault out besieged fortress in Lome, our garrison managed to halt the british advance, at least for now. In face of the war against the United States, I guess the canadian forces led by him are anxious to return home in order to defend their country against the americans.

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The british continue besieging our forces around the world outnumbering us in almost every front, the only advantage we have is our defensive system and, of course, our superior soldiers!

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loki100
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Wed May 28, 2014 6:57 am

I'd suspect that both you and GB are going to be rather stretched for a while, they are doing very well taking apart your colonial empire (again its good to see what the AI can do if it has the naval power it needs), but you've not really been able to commit very much to those sectors with your main armies tied up in Russia

HerrDan wrote:How many cats do you have? I love cats, they're so awesome! :w00t:


now to the important stuff, cats ;) . Only 3 at the moment, we lost one fairly recently, he was the one who is my avatar and indeed the name I use on the forums. Very much lived up to his name.
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HerrDan
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Russia capitulates!

Wed May 28, 2014 7:04 am

With the imminent fall of Saint Petersburg after their Summer counter-offensive came to naught, The Russian Empire signs its caputilation in The Russian capital of Saint Petersburg. The war between Germany and Russia is over. Finland declares independence, we're still deciding on the borders of the new nation, while some in Germany wanted to give even Viborg to Finland, where a great part of the population is finnish, we have decided that it would be maybe too much, so here is how the Finland territory will be composed (the template for the event I made, using Loki's event on the liberation of Kroatia as a guideline).

[ATTACH]28319[/ATTACH]

SelectFaction = $CMN
SelectRegion = $Helsingors
StartEvent = evt_nam_Finnish Declaration of Independence|1|2|Null|Null|Null|NULL

Actions
SelectFaction = $FIN
ChgFacRelationships = ITA;25
ChgFacRelationships = FRA;10
ChgFacRelationships = GER;100
ChgFacRelationships = AUS;40
ChgFacRelationships = RUS;0

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Helsingors
SetLoyaltyFac = 100

CreateStruc
SetType = $NavalBase
SetLevel = 2
Apply
CreateStruc
SetType = $Wood2
SetLevel = 2
SetName = Ahlstrom
Apply

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Abo
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Samya
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 60
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Joensuu
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 50
SetControl = 100

CreateStruc
SetType = $Minerals3
SetLevel = 3
SetName = Outokumpu
Apply

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Kuopio
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 60
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Tammerfors
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Tavastehus
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Bjorneborg
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Nikolaistad
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100


SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Uleaborg
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Imandra
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 50
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Kittala
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Kandalaks
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 75
SetControl = 100

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Rybachi
ChangeRgnOwner = RUS
SetLoyaltyFac = 60
SetControl = 100

Replacement = RFN;$famLine;52
Replacement = RFN;$famCavalry;4
Replacement = RFN;$famMilitia;40
Replacement = RFN;$famLightArty;2
NULL = NULL
ChangeResStock = $merMoney;3000
ChangeResStock = $merCapital;2750
ChangeResStock = $merInflation;0
ChangeResStock = $merDiplomat;10
ChangeResStock = $merConscript;600
ChangeResStock = $merOfficer;80
ChangeResStock = $merSupply;200
ChangeResStock = $merAmmo;1000
ChangeResStock = $merCereals;300
ChangeResStock = $merTea;10
ChangeResStock = $merCoffee;50
ChangeResStock = $merFruits;80
ChangeResStock = $merCattle;400
ChangeResStock = $merSugar;100
ChangeResStock = $merFish;700
ChangeResStock = $merGoods;900
ChangeResStock = $merTobacco;30
ChangeResStock = $merCottonWool;700
ChangeResStock = $merWood;1500
ChangeResStock = $merDyes;100
ChangeResStock = $merTextile;100
ChangeResStock = $merCoal;300
ChangeResStock = $merSteel;400
NULL = NULL

SelectFaction = $FIN
AddDiploItem = GER;$diComAgree;CURRENT
AddDiploItem = GER;$diDefensiveTreaty;CURRENT
AddDiploItem = GER;$diSupplyRightGive;CURRENT
AddDiploItem = AUS;$diComAgree;CURRENT
AddDiploItem = AUS;$diDefensiveTreaty;CURRENT

SelectFaction = $FIN
SelectRegion = $Helsingors
CreateGroup
Posture = $Defensive
SetKind = $Land
FixType = 3
SetName = Finland Army
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_RFN_Inf_1910_Corps
SetLevel = 4
SetName = I Jäger (XXVII) Corps
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_RFN_Inf_1910M_Corps
SetLevel = 3
SetName = II Jäger (XXVIII) Corps
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_RFN_Inf_1910_Div
SetLevel = 3
SetName = 21st Division
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_RUS_Sup_Sup1
SUFlavorName = Co 1|Co 2|Co 3|Co 4
SetLevel = 4
SetName = I. Finland Supply
Apply
CreateUnit
SetType = $uni_RUS_Sup_Sup1
SUFlavorName = Co 1|Co 2|Co 3|Co 4
SetLevel = 4
SetName = II. Finland Supply
Apply

EndEvent
Attachments
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HerrDan
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Wed May 28, 2014 7:12 am

Australia declares independence from Great Britain! And the united states creates a new military medal for what they call their "third war of independence".

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Attachments
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HerrDan
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Wed May 28, 2014 7:15 am

loki100 wrote:I'd suspect that both you and GB are going to be rather stretched for a while, they are doing very well taking apart your colonial empire (again its good to see what the AI can do if it has the naval power it needs), but you've not really been able to commit very much to those sectors with your main armies tied up in Russia

now to the important stuff, cats ;) . Only 3 at the moment, we lost one fairly recently, he was the one who is my avatar and indeed the name I use on the forums. Very much lived up to his name.


I had 2 siamese cats, but they're both gone now :( and I'm only with a dog at the moment, I'm thinking about getting another cat, but I'm afraid my dog won't get along with him very well.

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HerrDan
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Counter-attack plan in Ostafrika

Wed May 28, 2014 8:29 am

We are sending our colonial commanders Theodor Leuttwein and Adolf von Götzen to command a counter-blow against the british forces in Mombassa.

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In North America, the United States are launching an offensive against the british in Canada, Toronto is besieged!

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havi
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Wed May 28, 2014 8:49 am

Vyborg=Viipuri is Finnish the Stalin took it in ww2 and it is a scar of Finnish national memory my granny is from there and it is karelian peoples capital.. But it is nice to see u won the war now u have colonial war against GB. Is there any war weariness in your people?

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HerrDan
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Wed May 28, 2014 8:53 am

havi wrote:Vyborg=Viipuri is Finnish the Stalin took it in ww2 and it is a scar of Finnish national memory my granny is from there and it is karelian peoples capital.. But it is nice to see u won the war now u have colonial war against GB. Is there any war weariness in your people?


Not much, it seems the german people really like going to war with Russia and Great Britain ;)

We shall consider adding Vyborg to Finland one day in the future...

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Jim-NC
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Wed May 28, 2014 11:28 am

In regards to the PP gain from a crisis, it almost always has the ending pot go 90%/10%. Whoever wins the domination gets 90%, while the other gets only 10%. If no domination win, then the split is more 50/50. I don't know why, but that is the way it happens most of the time.
Remember - The beatings will continue until morale improves.

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HerrDan
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Some observations

Wed May 28, 2014 7:47 pm

Well, my event to give Finland the borders it deserves created some weird things, first for some reason Kuopio (Kuppio in the Area files) didn't pass to Finland control, I used the id from the areas file in gamedata, but still it didn't go to Finland control, it seems the region is really loyal to russia :mdr:

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Second the Minerals mine I wanted to create at Kuppio was created in Samya, where there isn't any Minerals, ah as I made the event twice because some of the territories I had to research the name in the Area files, another Mineral Mine ended up in Helsingors (Helsinki), where also there isn't minerals, but still the mine is producing well.

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The Finnish army was created, twice as well, because I made the event fire for a second time as I explained above, it's not a big deal, I just ended up making the finns stronger, but the strange thing is that the army was created in Rybachi and not in Helsinki (Helsingors), I used the OOB_1914 files as a guideline when creating these troops, but I guess they should be created in the finnish capital and not in Rybachi.

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The only thing missing now is to understand how Kuppio is identified to the game...
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HerrDan
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:14 am
Location: Königsberg

Wed May 28, 2014 7:54 pm

We had a crisis with Russia, as we suspect they were instigating some riots in Finland (it seems like the russians really like to do it, unfortunatelly there isn't a Germany like mine in rl to give them a lesson nowadays :mdr :) , so I had to make some militar manuevers to make the russians think well about what they're doing...

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HerrDan
Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:14 am
Location: Königsberg

Wed May 28, 2014 8:01 pm

Our counter-attack in Mombassa managed to drive the british forces back! The african troops fought bravely against the british, they're really loyal to the german crown!

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