pantsukki
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Why do the Parthians (almost) always suffer massive element losses?

Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:04 pm

I've been observing this in a couple of PBEM games now, and just had a very good example: my Parthians were defending behind a river in Babylon, combat value 2099. The Romans had 2838. End result: Parthian losses 23k, Roman 17k. But the Romans lost 0(!) elements, while my Parthians lost 36!

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Hobbes
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:14 pm

Interesting - doesn't seem right does it. Thanks for posting - I've just started to properly test a scenario I'm making with the Sassanids which are based on the Parthian models so I will look out for this.

Thanks,
Chris

bob.
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 8:58 pm

How I explain it to myself: Cavalry elements are extremely vulnerable. I think that a single combat round can destroy them, so they can't get away from the front before they are destroyed while the Roman units can just get out of the front when they are damaged.

I see very rarely Parthian infantry elements get destroyed, only cavalry.

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Hobbes
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Mon Mar 03, 2014 10:48 pm

Would you not think cavalry should be less likely to face total defeat? Being faster I would expect them to be more likely to survive a battle?

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Pocus
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:16 am

The bigger the unit, the more often (read: almost all the time if a really big unit) the hits taken will be spread between all sub-units. And as you know, Romans have big units (legions). You almost have to destroy entirely a Roman army to start killing legions, otherwise they are mostly made of skeletons cohorts.
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

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Narwhal
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:18 pm

Two reasons :

IIRC, many Parthian elements [horse archers] are 6 SP strong, so easier to kill than a 10 elements strong.

The cavalry elements are also f**** by the "charge / counter-charge" mechanics. A unit that charges and is met with a counter-charge receive 2x damage. Full-strength legion almost always counter-charge [high discipline], and since legions hits at 5 SP damage...

pantsukki
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:25 pm

Cheers for the answers! Could this then be compensated by lowering the price of Parthian replacement chits? Also, in many scenarios (probably all, I haven't made notes) the Parthians are unable to rebuild lost units, ie. they never appear in the force pool. This seems especially true of the clan forces that are activated by spending EP.

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Bohémond
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:41 pm

Except Heavy Cavalry elements none of the Parthian Clavalry elements do charge.


Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

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ArmChairGeneral
AGEod Grognard
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:19 pm

So a likely culprit is the smaller unit size of the Parthian forces compared to the Roman Legions?

Any ideas on how to overcome or minimize this disadvantage in-game as the Parthian player (i.e. other than a mod or rule change)?

A question for the OP:
Were the Parthians all in one stack?

pantsukki
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:20 pm

They were, yes. Sadly not many of them left. :(

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Bohémond
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:43 pm

Please take a look at your battle report. If a Parthian leader wa in command of the stack, no "assault phase'' should have happened in first round. So no cavalry elements should have been destroyed

Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

pantsukki
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 7:50 pm

Bohémond wrote:Please take a look at your battle report. If a Parthian leader wa in command of the stack, no "assault phase'' should have happened in first round. So no cavalry elements should have been destroyed

Regards


IIRC the overall leader was an Adiabenian (sp). I can provide files if needed.

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Bohémond
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:13 pm

ADI leader have not the above described attribute about no assault.
Without it, it's very hard for Parthian Cav to have a decisive impact on battles

Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

bob.
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:09 pm

Bohemond, could you explain why exactly Parthian commanders prevent assaults in the first round and other commanders not? They dont seem to have a specific ability for it.

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Bohémond
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Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:13 am

This ability is a hidden one, i.e. an attribute
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

bob.
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Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:10 pm

Why is it a hidden attribute? Honest question, I mean is it supposed to be something unknown to the player? Why not an ability so you know this is the case?

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Bohémond
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Fri Mar 07, 2014 9:42 pm

I think you are right.

I will discuss it with the team and maybe a ability icon could be added in next version

Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.

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