In my first try I won as Caesar in 47 turns. Now, I'm playing as Pompey and it is much more challenging. I have a couple of questions:
1.) What do you think, which Pompey's decision is better in a long term: a) Spain or b) East? So far, I tried to send Pompey to Spain but it is very difficult to defend Spain and stop Caesar and Mark Antony onslaught.
2.) During my playthrough with Caesar, after taking Hispalis all enemy units located in Spian switched to my side. What exactly triggers this? Is it enough that Caesar only take Hispalis or there are also other requirements for this to happen?
3.) Something similar occurred in Sicily. At one moment (turn 7 or 8 IIRC), whole Sicily simply switched side and went under Caesarian faction control. Problem is that I had upper hand here. Enemy only controlled Lilybaeum which was under siege by Cato. All others cites, including Syracusae were in my hands. What triggered this switch of military control and loyalty? It seems to be automatic scripted event but I'm not sure. Can someone give more details about this?
2)
For Hispania Reddition, you need ;
Caesar to be in Hispania
Pompey not be in Hispania
Control of ; Carthago Nova, Salduba, Cesse and ilerda
3) For Sicily Reddition, you need
Cato not in Sicilia or Caesarian Landing in Sicilia
Roma must be controlled
Regards
For Hispania Reddition, you need ;
Caesar to be in Hispania
Pompey not be in Hispania
Control of ; Carthago Nova, Salduba, Cesse and ilerda
3) For Sicily Reddition, you need
Cato not in Sicilia or Caesarian Landing in Sicilia
Roma must be controlled
Regards
Marco, perché vai così forte in salita?» «Per abbreviare la mia agonia.
I have just finished second PBEM campaign in this scenario. In first, I played as Caesar. That game lasted for 25 turns. I caught my opponent unprepaid and devastated his entire army in couple of turns. My National morale (NM) skyrocketed to 185 activating sudden death trigger. In a second, we switched sides so I took Pompey. After 35 turns I offered surrender and my opponent accepted. He didn't score automatic victory but after a series of defeats in Greece I didn't have any land force which was be able to stop Caesar. Rest of the game would be delaying inevitable with fun factor significantly reduced. In the next few lines I will give couple of observation regarding this scenario.
1.) It seems that Caesarian faction is more powerful in every aspect:
2.) "Hispania or East" dilemma.
"East" option (more legions and more money) maybe seems better at first. But more money equals to only 100 denarii and that is almost nothing. You cannot recruit half of single legion with that. Additional eastern legions are almost useless as fighting force against Caesar. Don't count them for anything more serious than maybe guarding duties in key locations. Also, with all resource constraints you probably will not have enough money to recruit them anyway.
3.) Option with maybe most of chance for success for Pompey is to try to stop Caesar in Hispania. Maybe I should try to defend around Carthago Nova. In order to finish his job in Hispania, Caesar probably needs to take that city situated in province with hilly terrain. If Pompey had concentrated his best troops there, it could have bled Caesar army. It is speculation but maybe it would worth a risk (also that asks for solving logistic difficulties). In my game, I bought some time by evacuating Hispania but it was almost impossible to stop Caesar elsewhere. I tried that and didn't succeed. Simply, with his far mobile and stronger army Caesar has strategic initiative, picking a targets of opportunity and forcing you to come and fight under his terms.
Bottom line is that longest scenario in AJE is heavily unbalanced in Caesar favour. It does a good job of reflecting historical deficiencies of Pompeian faction but at cost of low replayability. What is the point to play scenario in which you know Caesar is going to win each time? Entire war will usually be decided in the first two-three years. You could prolong scenario by running all over map as Pompey but it becomes obvious he would lost in the end.
Maybe limiting time duration of scenario just to 49-44 period with somewhat different concept of victory determination could give more replaying value. For example, in Gary Grigsby's War in the Pacific it is almost impossible to achieve pure military victory as Japan. However, victory score is based on how much you did better/worse than your historical counterpart. If you prolong war more, then you can score victory because you did better job than Japan historically did. Maybe something similar would work here.
1.) It seems that Caesarian faction is more powerful in every aspect:
- Strategic position. At beginning of scenario Caesar have better starting position. His legions are concentrated in one region while Pompey has his armies scattered across three continents. Most of them are locked and useless anyway.
- Quality of troops. Pompeian legions are not match for Caesar veterans. If fighting on equal terms Caesar will almost always win. Pompeians need to be in defensive posture, on favorable terrain (hills, mountains, behind river...) in order to have any chance for winning a battles. Attacks and meeting engagements, even with far numerous army, are a risky business for Pompeians and should be totally avoided.
- Quality of commanders. Simply, most of Pompey's two and three star generals have pathetic ratings.
- Navy. I would say that both factions are equal in terms of naval power. Maybe Caesar have somewhat smaller fleet but his leading admiral has better rating which makes ships under his command a dangerous foe.
- Resources. It is not obvious immediately but Caesar's faction is easier to play regarding resources needed for waging the war. Pompey has money advantage but it is not as big as I expected to be. After conquering Sicily (which is not a big deal) and Hispania (which is also a very probable option), Caesar is on equal terms with Pompey regarding annual income. Also, Pompey has some other disadvantages if you are playing with historical attrition. For example, his numerous (mostly locked) allies armies (Numibia, Lagid kingdom...) are in need for replacements every turn just to keep them on full strength and to compensate for usual attrition (disease...). Also, Pompey has to rely more on navy for troop movement (remember he has armies scattered across three continents). If you are unlucky with the sea storms, you will have to spend a lot of your budget just to keep your fleet operational (ship repairs from weather damage). Finally, as Pompey you need to compensate fighting inferiority of your troops. Natural way to do that is to recruit more additional units. But that costs. In the end you will have to pay a lot of more for replacements than Caesar. All of these factor combined will stretch Pompey budget to the limit. One way to compensate for this budget constrains is to use regional decisions (requisitions and enslavement) but these options will cost you a lot of victory points.
2.) "Hispania or East" dilemma.
"East" option (more legions and more money) maybe seems better at first. But more money equals to only 100 denarii and that is almost nothing. You cannot recruit half of single legion with that. Additional eastern legions are almost useless as fighting force against Caesar. Don't count them for anything more serious than maybe guarding duties in key locations. Also, with all resource constraints you probably will not have enough money to recruit them anyway.
3.) Option with maybe most of chance for success for Pompey is to try to stop Caesar in Hispania. Maybe I should try to defend around Carthago Nova. In order to finish his job in Hispania, Caesar probably needs to take that city situated in province with hilly terrain. If Pompey had concentrated his best troops there, it could have bled Caesar army. It is speculation but maybe it would worth a risk (also that asks for solving logistic difficulties). In my game, I bought some time by evacuating Hispania but it was almost impossible to stop Caesar elsewhere. I tried that and didn't succeed. Simply, with his far mobile and stronger army Caesar has strategic initiative, picking a targets of opportunity and forcing you to come and fight under his terms.
Bottom line is that longest scenario in AJE is heavily unbalanced in Caesar favour. It does a good job of reflecting historical deficiencies of Pompeian faction but at cost of low replayability. What is the point to play scenario in which you know Caesar is going to win each time? Entire war will usually be decided in the first two-three years. You could prolong scenario by running all over map as Pompey but it becomes obvious he would lost in the end.
Maybe limiting time duration of scenario just to 49-44 period with somewhat different concept of victory determination could give more replaying value. For example, in Gary Grigsby's War in the Pacific it is almost impossible to achieve pure military victory as Japan. However, victory score is based on how much you did better/worse than your historical counterpart. If you prolong war more, then you can score victory because you did better job than Japan historically did. Maybe something similar would work here.
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James D Burns
- Posts: 561
- Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:28 am
- Location: Salida, CA
As Pompey I always go east, I see no real benefit of going west and the loyalty drop out east hurts a lot.
Were you using any house rules? If not spam requisition and slave cards in Hispania every turn starting in the northern regions and working south. It brings in enough money that you should be able to purchase all of the allied troops in Spain before Massalia falls. Just be sure to not play any cards in a few critical regions you want to use for recruiting units. You can’t place units if your loyalty falls too much so pick a few recruiting regions and leave them well defended and untouched so loyalty stays high.
If you can slow Caesar down enough allowing you to play multiple cards in most of the regions of Hispania, you may even be able to build out your entire force pool within 2 years. Once Hispania falls then focus your cards in Africa.
The main strength of Pompey is the massive number of troops he can build. If you get most of them on map early in game Caesar will be forced to spread himself out to deal with all the threats. If you don’t spam cards and only rely on the yearly income it’s almost impossible to win as Pompey since Caesar can mass his troops. So TAX your people and put the ones who complain in chains, you are playing as a Roman after all. Also attack Caesar everywhere, if you aren’t landing small detachments in Italy, Dalmatia and Sicily constantly, you are giving Caesar too much breathing room.
As Caesar I focus these cards in non-critical cities in Gaul. I can have the entire force pool built within a year as Caesar, but he has far fewer troops he can build overall. Caesar’s main strategy is sledgehammer and speed. Bring as much power as you can to hit a single target and crush it fast. Then move on to the next target and rinse/repeat.
Jim
Were you using any house rules? If not spam requisition and slave cards in Hispania every turn starting in the northern regions and working south. It brings in enough money that you should be able to purchase all of the allied troops in Spain before Massalia falls. Just be sure to not play any cards in a few critical regions you want to use for recruiting units. You can’t place units if your loyalty falls too much so pick a few recruiting regions and leave them well defended and untouched so loyalty stays high.
If you can slow Caesar down enough allowing you to play multiple cards in most of the regions of Hispania, you may even be able to build out your entire force pool within 2 years. Once Hispania falls then focus your cards in Africa.
The main strength of Pompey is the massive number of troops he can build. If you get most of them on map early in game Caesar will be forced to spread himself out to deal with all the threats. If you don’t spam cards and only rely on the yearly income it’s almost impossible to win as Pompey since Caesar can mass his troops. So TAX your people and put the ones who complain in chains, you are playing as a Roman after all. Also attack Caesar everywhere, if you aren’t landing small detachments in Italy, Dalmatia and Sicily constantly, you are giving Caesar too much breathing room.
As Caesar I focus these cards in non-critical cities in Gaul. I can have the entire force pool built within a year as Caesar, but he has far fewer troops he can build overall. Caesar’s main strategy is sledgehammer and speed. Bring as much power as you can to hit a single target and crush it fast. Then move on to the next target and rinse/repeat.
Jim
I have just played about 40 turns of a PBEM of this scenario against an opponent. The situation for Pompey is hopeless. I would really like to know if anyone has won as Pompey vs a human opponent. If so please state the circumstances.
I agree with most/all of the comments above as far as imbalance towards Caesar goes.
If historically correct, I think the scenario notes for playing Pompey should at least provide much more useful information, such as the total number of legions/troops in Caesars army in Gual/Hispania and size of fleet. The "Combat Power" values shown at the F7 screen are, if anything, deceptive. As has been pointed out, the majority of Pompey's "Combat Power" is locked and far away from Caesar's massed armies.
PS: I just realised that I totally forgot about the "Decision Mode" and "Military Recruitment" screens! I am sure that didn't help my cause.
I think the only way to win as Pompey in a PBEM is for the Pompey player to have played and studied the scenario before and have very particular plans/strategies in place to disrupt their opponent. I think the Pompey player needs to generate some of their own initiative rather than be reactive to the moves of the Caesar player. Either way it will probably depend on a lot of luck and good fortune.
I agree with most/all of the comments above as far as imbalance towards Caesar goes.
If historically correct, I think the scenario notes for playing Pompey should at least provide much more useful information, such as the total number of legions/troops in Caesars army in Gual/Hispania and size of fleet. The "Combat Power" values shown at the F7 screen are, if anything, deceptive. As has been pointed out, the majority of Pompey's "Combat Power" is locked and far away from Caesar's massed armies.
PS: I just realised that I totally forgot about the "Decision Mode" and "Military Recruitment" screens! I am sure that didn't help my cause.
I think the only way to win as Pompey in a PBEM is for the Pompey player to have played and studied the scenario before and have very particular plans/strategies in place to disrupt their opponent. I think the Pompey player needs to generate some of their own initiative rather than be reactive to the moves of the Caesar player. Either way it will probably depend on a lot of luck and good fortune.
Bullman wrote:I have just played about 40 turns of a PBEM of this scenario against an opponent. The situation for Pompey is hopeless. I would really like to know if anyone has won as Pompey vs a human opponent. If so please state the circumstances.
I agree with most/all of the comments above as far as imbalance towards Caesar goes.
If historically correct, I think the scenario notes for playing Pompey should at least provide much more useful information, such as the total number of legions/troops in Caesars army in Gual/Hispania and size of fleet. The "Combat Power" values shown at the F7 screen are, if anything, deceptive. As has been pointed out, the majority of Pompey's "Combat Power" is locked and far away from Caesar's massed armies.
PS: I just realised that I totally forgot about the "Decision Mode" and "Military Recruitment" screens! I am sure that didn't help my cause.
I think the only way to win as Pompey in a PBEM is for the Pompey player to have played and studied the scenario before and have very particular plans/strategies in place to disrupt their opponent. I think the Pompey player needs to generate some of their own initiative rather than be reactive to the moves of the Caesar player. Either way it will probably depend on a lot of luck and good fortune.
Played PBEM as both, won both. As Pompeius the Caesarians failed to take Hispania, which helped immensely. I even failed one landing in Italy, but was still able to win it pretty fast.
pantsukki wrote:Played PBEM as both, won both. As Pompeius the Caesarians failed to take Hispania, which helped immensely. I even failed one landing in Italy, but was still able to win it pretty fast.
OK. Can you elaborate more on your strategy and events during the game? I for one can not see how Pompey can defend Hispania when Caesar and all his army can basically storm down from Gaul and out number/out muscle any force Pompey can muster in the first few turns.
Bullman wrote:OK. Can you elaborate more on your strategy and events during the game? I for one can not see how Pompey can defend Hispania when Caesar and all his army can basically storm down from Gaul and out number/out muscle any force Pompey can muster in the first few turns.
As I've mentioned above, I also think that Pompey most viable option is to try to stop Caesar in Hispania. Otherwise, on a long run, Caesar wins. After Hispania, he will have enough money to parry Pompeians, favorable strategic position to pick weak spots, mobile army to strike fast and hard whenever he wants. Even in Spain, chances to win as Pompey are very slim against human opponent who has previous scenario experience and good knowledge of gameplay mechanics.
Anyway, it would be interesting to hear Pantsukki elaboration about how he managed to defend Hispania.
Hi!
I'm currently playing Pompey by PBEM and i think i'm not far from winning (let's keep our figers crossed... against Caesar you can't never be sure... :blink
. We are on turn 20 something...
What i've done is more or less the same i did against the AI in my first play with Pompey: Sent Pompey east and try to avoid decisive engagements in Hispania with Caesar main forces while i gather armies on Africa and Macedonia to invade Sicily and Italy while Caesar is occupied in Hispania.
Caesar+veteran legions are nearly unstoppable, so better not to try to stop them at all. But keep them busy on Hispania as long as possible. There is room to maneuver in Hispania and with a little luck, avoid Caesar main forces and maybe even pounce on some isolated detachments from time to time. And always be a bother and try to take back strategic and Caesar objective towns once Caesar is gone from them.
Nothing new, just what Fabius did with Hannibal on the 2º Punic War
With a little luck in the Italy and Sicily invasions, you can get some NM advantage which will make combats against veteran legions more even. And of course, reduce Caesar income. When he come back to recover Italy, again try to avoid decisive engagements with him and recover Hispania while he's away. If he goes East, again try to steal the west in his back...
Pompey have a pretty good advantage on the sea, so he could use the fleets to move forces around and look for the weak spots.
Of course against an expert player all this is not easily done, but if your opponent don't act very aggressively with Caesar and his veterans and give you some time to recruit, build up and give some experience to your legions and leaders, you can make interesting things.
One Pompey trick i learned in some AAR i read around here is to try to recruit as much legions as possible in the first 2 or 3 turns in Italy and Sicily, before you lose those regions for good. Once Caesar take Italy and Sicily by event, all your forces (including units in training) will be safely transferred to Africa or Macedonia. Having those 3 or 4 extra legions from the start is a boon!
And i always try to save what i can from the Massilia forces before they are annihilated. Specially Ahenobarbus is a very interesting ** leader that can be saved with a little luck... He is the only 6 strategic rating available for Pompey.
Also Pompey can command foreign forces without penalties, so he can make good use of Galatians, Thracian, Numidian and Hispanic forces which are pretty cheap to get.
What i have never done is recruit much oriental legions. I found them very weak and worthless against Caesar veterans
I think this is a very nice scenario to play against a Caesar AI.
In PBEM, is not balanced at all, but if the less experienced player plays at Caesar it can be very interesting.
Regards
I'm currently playing Pompey by PBEM and i think i'm not far from winning (let's keep our figers crossed... against Caesar you can't never be sure... :blink
. We are on turn 20 something...
What i've done is more or less the same i did against the AI in my first play with Pompey: Sent Pompey east and try to avoid decisive engagements in Hispania with Caesar main forces while i gather armies on Africa and Macedonia to invade Sicily and Italy while Caesar is occupied in Hispania.
Caesar+veteran legions are nearly unstoppable, so better not to try to stop them at all. But keep them busy on Hispania as long as possible. There is room to maneuver in Hispania and with a little luck, avoid Caesar main forces and maybe even pounce on some isolated detachments from time to time. And always be a bother and try to take back strategic and Caesar objective towns once Caesar is gone from them.
Nothing new, just what Fabius did with Hannibal on the 2º Punic War
With a little luck in the Italy and Sicily invasions, you can get some NM advantage which will make combats against veteran legions more even. And of course, reduce Caesar income. When he come back to recover Italy, again try to avoid decisive engagements with him and recover Hispania while he's away. If he goes East, again try to steal the west in his back...
Pompey have a pretty good advantage on the sea, so he could use the fleets to move forces around and look for the weak spots.
Of course against an expert player all this is not easily done, but if your opponent don't act very aggressively with Caesar and his veterans and give you some time to recruit, build up and give some experience to your legions and leaders, you can make interesting things.
One Pompey trick i learned in some AAR i read around here is to try to recruit as much legions as possible in the first 2 or 3 turns in Italy and Sicily, before you lose those regions for good. Once Caesar take Italy and Sicily by event, all your forces (including units in training) will be safely transferred to Africa or Macedonia. Having those 3 or 4 extra legions from the start is a boon!
And i always try to save what i can from the Massilia forces before they are annihilated. Specially Ahenobarbus is a very interesting ** leader that can be saved with a little luck... He is the only 6 strategic rating available for Pompey.
Also Pompey can command foreign forces without penalties, so he can make good use of Galatians, Thracian, Numidian and Hispanic forces which are pretty cheap to get.
What i have never done is recruit much oriental legions. I found them very weak and worthless against Caesar veterans
I think this is a very nice scenario to play against a Caesar AI.
In PBEM, is not balanced at all, but if the less experienced player plays at Caesar it can be very interesting.
Regards
I've only won as Pompey once. I sent him east and began building as much as I could in Spain and the east. Caesar besieged and took Sicily while Antony moved into Spain. However, I was able to slow Antony down and after several build turns, began my move towards Italy with Pompey's main force. Several large battles took place, and in one of the battles Caesar was actually killed. That was a first! Anyway, without his super hero rankings, his armies retreated and I managed to retake Italy after a tough fight. With that, it was just a matter or pincer attacking Antony with my Spain forces on one side and Pompey's on the other.
Thing was, the victory screen never kicked off despite the fact that Caesar was dead and Antony was left with hardly an army at all. In fact, by the time the turns ran out I had taken every single victory city, had an overwhelming advantage in VPs and army numbers, yet the victory didn't click until the last turn. I don't know if that's a bug or what, but it seems hard to imagine the Senate faction not winning with Caesar dead and his armies destroyed. Then again, that was way back in 1.00 or 1.01 so it's probably a bug that has been fixed.
Thing was, the victory screen never kicked off despite the fact that Caesar was dead and Antony was left with hardly an army at all. In fact, by the time the turns ran out I had taken every single victory city, had an overwhelming advantage in VPs and army numbers, yet the victory didn't click until the last turn. I don't know if that's a bug or what, but it seems hard to imagine the Senate faction not winning with Caesar dead and his armies destroyed. Then again, that was way back in 1.00 or 1.01 so it's probably a bug that has been fixed.
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Franciscus
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Taciturn Scot
- Sergeant
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Boomer wrote:I've only won as Pompey once. I sent him east and began building as much as I could in Spain and the east. Caesar besieged and took Sicily while Antony moved into Spain. However, I was able to slow Antony down and after several build turns, began my move towards Italy with Pompey's main force. Several large battles took place, and in one of the battles Caesar was actually killed. That was a first! Anyway, without his super hero rankings, his armies retreated and I managed to retake Italy after a tough fight. With that, it was just a matter or pincer attacking Antony with my Spain forces on one side and Pompey's on the other.
Thing was, the victory screen never kicked off despite the fact that Caesar was dead and Antony was left with hardly an army at all. In fact, by the time the turns ran out I had taken every single victory city, had an overwhelming advantage in VPs and army numbers, yet the victory didn't click until the last turn. I don't know if that's a bug or what, but it seems hard to imagine the Senate faction not winning with Caesar dead and his armies destroyed. Then again, that was way back in 1.00 or 1.01 so it's probably a bug that has been fixed.
You've got to figure that the death of Caesar would be a pretty hefty blow to his side's NM.
Bullman wrote:OK. Can you elaborate more on your strategy and events during the game? I for one can not see how Pompey can defend Hispania when Caesar and all his army can basically storm down from Gaul and out number/out muscle any force Pompey can muster in the first few turns.
Um..it was quite some time ago, and also I guess the opponent wasn't the most experienced (then again I'm hardly an expert myself!). But he seemed to take his time in bringing the brunt of his forces to Hispania (one mistake was overcommitting against Massilia), and also made a failed landing in Africa which cost some troops and resources. One attempt against Epirus was repelled too. The Caesarian side needs to expand fast, because having just Gaul and Italy won't be enough even with the veteran troops. And IIRC I managed to tip the NM scales to my favor pretty soon, which will make winning engagements easier, which will increase the NM gap, making winning easier etc.
Pompeius needs some luck to win the war. In one game I gained some valuable time when Caesar was badly delayed in the west. This made it possible for me to raise armies that were strong enough to face Caesar's Stack of Doom and put up a good fight. But it has to be said that Caesar can often win almost impossible situations. And if he's able to expand quickly and wins some decisive battles that ruin the opponent's NM ratings, I don't really know what the Pompeius faction can do to avoid a certain defeat.
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Jagger2013
- General of the Army
- Posts: 641
- Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 2:14 am
Ummm...this thread is not good for my confidence. I just started a PBEM as Pompei and this is my very first attempt at the Pompei-Caesar scenario. Played all of the other scenarios against the aI but not this one. So I am pretty much in the dark as to what to expect in terms of events, etc.
I have choosen the Pompei moves East Option. When the option was implemented, a message stated I had to move east and visit all potential allies to see if any will join my cause. So it sounds like I need to abandon my army in Greece and head east. There was no list of who to visit, so I assume I should visit every non-Roman army I can see in the east one by one and hope they support the just cause. Any suggestions on the trek to the east????
I have choosen the Pompei moves East Option. When the option was implemented, a message stated I had to move east and visit all potential allies to see if any will join my cause. So it sounds like I need to abandon my army in Greece and head east. There was no list of who to visit, so I assume I should visit every non-Roman army I can see in the east one by one and hope they support the just cause. Any suggestions on the trek to the east????
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