PON Modder Group "The Victorians"

[Hohenlohe]

Hello guys...Is there anyone really interested to make some alternative historical scenarios or campaigns or perhaps a new GC starting either 1840 or 1850 with minimum 12 starting factions giving some minor or tribal factions a little chance or only the players home country to see what was historically possible with a total new approach.

What will await you if are interested:

-with some passion you could bring yourself in with the knowledge of your countrys' history and economic creating new or historical events which will provide you with some choices to change history in your country.

- eventually creating some flavoured historical famous military unit which belongs only to your country...

-if you like an alternative approach you could eventually implement your own character as a military leader with appropriate traits...

-change history with an alternative campaign like what would have happened if the Sioux Alliance would have done better after Little Big Horn or a recreation of the Little Big Horn Campaign: Could you do it better than Custer or Red Cloud...??

-what would have happened if some American Indian Tribes would have formed a even greater alliance as the Sioux/Dakota one...??

-imagine an alternative campaign where the Apaches was able to form something like their own state with the recognition by the British and French...

-how would the Mormone state survive in the Utah Territory if it was forced to defend itself against the Indians and perhaps the US Administration...

-an eventually alternative CSA/USA campaign where the CSA must survive longer than in history: Could you lead the CSA to some success with or without foreign help...??
Would you perform better than Jefferson Davis or Abe Lincoln...??

If you feel yourself immersed and interested then send me a PN...

greetings

Hohenlohe

edit: I have less knowledge about modding than most of you...just give it a try...

[marcusjm]

I would also be interested in even 18th century since ETW was so half-baked. Of course I realize that it is impossible with the current ruleset but an expansion certainly.

Otherwise I will certainly check up n everything you make so start creating .

[Hohenlohe]

I would also be interested in even 18th century since ETW was so half-baked. Of course I realize that it is impossible with the current ruleset but an expansion certainly.

Otherwise I will certainly check up n everything you make so start creating .

You would be welcomed in the group if you wish, thus you can participate and bring in your own imaginations and wishes...

Just try it...

greetings

Mike aka Hohenlohe

[marcusjm]

I doubt I would have the time to mod myself but playing it would of course be interesting.

But, it will take some time before the default scenarios are exhausted for me.

[McNaughton]

I have a fair bit of preliminary work for a few 'ideas' and tasks for extensions, some of which will be in official PoN patches, or DLC. However, things like extended CSA leaders will not be in an official PoN update (but, I have a few historic or possible leaders to develop a leader file that extends until 1920).

[Hohenlohe]

I have a fair bit of preliminary work for a few 'ideas' and tasks for extensions, some of which will be in official PoN patches, or DLC. However, things like extended CSA leaders will not be in an official PoN update (but, I have a few historic or possible leaders to develop a leader file that extends until 1920).

Dear McNaughton, I would be happy if you will be able to join the group as some experience is always welcome.
For possible modifications like alternative scenarios or campaigns or totally new scenarios/ campaigns nothing is written in stone.
I think that it is always possible to start with a new overhauled ACW campaign or scenario with a schwerpunkt on the CSA could be a possible good start for this modder group and after that an alternative GC or such else with some improvements to some minor or tribal nations seems possible for me.

For example a scenario or better a campaign related to the western expansion of the US - eventually called "The New Frontier" or such else - where the American Indians would get some improvements based on some economic improvements and eventually the improvements of the Indian Native military levies belonging to either some development or trade implications would help to become more exciting.

I am even personally interested about a scenario or a campaign about the Mormon State or much more interesting about the short-timed California Republic - the Bear State.

Another interesting scenario/campaign would be the situation in South America from around 1840/1850 onwards which leads to the Triple Alliance War from 1865-1870 and the following consequences for the participants especially Brazil and Argentinia.

This Modder group should think in a mid- or long term view what could made possible and what not.

You mentioned especially the CSA and I still know that there exists many alternative fictive historical scenarios written down as good books what could have happened if Lee had won at Gettysburg and such else.

This would be a good start in my personal opinion for something new, but it would need some dedication from the community in participating in the modder group.

For a german like me it would be also interesting what could have happened if the some revolutionaries like the famous Carl Shultz and others would have been able to defeat the Prussian forces during the Badenian Revolution War around 1848/1850 which was historically lostt and leads to the exile of many germans to the northern USa where they took later a decisive part in the ACW on the Union side. Thus a short campaign from around 1847 until 1850 with shorter turns in the southwestern area of Germany would be interested for me as not many germans nowadays knows anything about that.

As many members of the AGEOD communities originated from the Americas, Europe and Asia and eventually even Africa we could try some different alternative historical scenarios about some forgotten wars in that era.

What about a scenario about the Mahdi Rebellion in Sudan if not already existing...perhaps the Fashoda Crisis...the Zulu War...the Boers Wars...the Abessinian War...the Afghan Expeditions...the War between Chile,Peru and Bolivia which leads to the loss of coastal access to Bolivia...

There so many possibilities...we should give it a try...

heartful greetings

Hohenlohe

[marcusjm]

Well, I would like to see more battle scenarios.

Since I passed by the impressive Crimea statue in London many times last week, I thought about that scenario a couple of times . I don't think there has been any comprehensive scenario about that battle yet. There was one scenario in Age of Rifles but other than that,nothing.

This battle scenario would be perfect for this game and it is somewhat surprising that it didn't make it into the included scenarios.

[Hohenlohe]

Dear fellows, I hope that you do not regard me as someone arrogant because of telling you how much books I have read for life...See it more simplified...I think I would be able to do some decent research for some new scenarios or short campaigns with my historical knowledge as background, but most of you do even know more about the history of your home country, more than I would ever be able to learn the next years thus my knowledge is more an addition than anything else...

I think if we bring our abilities and knowledge together we would be able to make something new and good...who knows, eventually it can become one new dlc...

Thus I hope for some more interested people who want to participate as a group member...

greetings

Hohenlohe

[Amadeus_66]

Well as I posted in an other thread:

Hello Gentlemen,

I should say, from my totally-newbie perspective, that all those reasons and intercrossed interests you are talking about would make for a nice chain of events which could lead or not to a sort of earlier Great War in Europe.

All in all it could become the seed-idea for modding an Alternative GC or at least Battlescenario.


Best regards

I really think Crimea-crisis could be an interesting What if ? topic to explore and exploit for an alternative battlescenario with a lot of replayability too, a large chain of events, choises and diplomatic moves which could lead to:

Turkey, France, UK, S-P vs Russia, Prussia, Austria-Hungary
with maybe (if opportunities arise):
Sweden backstabbing Russia
Danemark backstabbing Prussia
Persia, Egypt backstabbing Turkey

The famous '55 Great War

Unfortunately I never modded AGE-games ( but I do have a little experience in other Paradox game ) and most importantly I still need to learn how to play !

So I need some time before commit myself.

Regards

[marcusjm]

Dear fellows, I hope that you do not regard me as someone arrogant because of telling you how much books I have read for life...See it more simplified...I think I would be able to do some decent research for some new scenarios or short campaigns with my historical knowledge as background, but most of you do even know more about the history of your home country, more than I would ever be able to learn the next years thus my knowledge is more an addition than anything else...

I think if we bring our abilities and knowledge together we would be able to make something new and good...who knows, eventually it can become one new dlc...

Thus I hope for some more interested people who want to participate as a group member...

greetings

Hohenlohe

This isn't the forum for Starcraft2 so i doubt anyone will look down on you for reading books . We are all pretty much hardcore history nerds here I think.

[Hohenlohe]

Dear marcus and amadeus, if you are able to commit yourself to this Modder Group we could try something although not all of us have modded anything or especially AGEOD games, but most of us like these games and I think that we could dedicate some of our rare time to modding especially PON.

The possible scenarios which each of you has told about would be an ideal entry to modding PON thus we can really make something as I think. If even Franciscus and McNaughton would participate in this group we would have a real chance to be successful...

heartful greetings

Hohenlohe

edit: dear marcusjm, amadeus, Franciscus and McNaughton you should regard yourself as invited...

[Franciscus]

I will quote myself :

I am correcting some errors or inacuracies (mainly map related) of Portugal. I may be interested in the future in modding Portugal in terms of events, characters, etc, but that only in the long term.

First, I must understand the game, play it, then maybe understand how events, etc. are made. Not accounting for the small details of real life...
And of course, I will need to do some heavy refreshment on Portugal's history in the 2nd half of the XIX century (really, I am no history nerd, and although Portuguese I probably now a lot more about USA history of this period than of my own country..:bonk .

So, maybe, in the future...

Anyhow, if you and marcussjm unite your efforts, I am sure something will come out of this

[Hohenlohe]

I will quote myself :
Anyhow, if you and marcussjm unite your efforts, I am sure something will come out of this

Dear Franciscus, you are welcomed everytime anytime because you will know more about the History of the Iberian Peninsula than I still have...

Thus your help will be essential as I think the same is true for marcusjm and McNaughton.

I regard myself not as something like the big modding leader because of my small experience I would prefer a more basic democratic approach thus we all have the same rights and should work together to the best of the old community...So we can participate with our knowledge and abilities...

If we could unite our efforts in that manner we would be clearly successful on the long run as I think...

thx and greetings

Hohenlohe aka Michael

[Amadeus_66]

Hello Hohenlohe,

I will definitively help you in the limited extent of my knowledge and skill.

Nevertheless I had not time to play at all these last days and I'm still reading the manual, the forums (here and paradox) and testing the starting conditions in game....and when coming to modding AGEOD game I'm a total newbie so more time to learn.....

Anyway, if I may suggest you a few pragmatical approaches:

1) Having a small group of experienced, history feeded and motivated players as the hard-core nucleus* of the modding effort is a must.

Democratic metods doesn't work well when applied to projects where tens or hundreds of peoples dispute themselves about every single detail in some controversial historical event....

Having a dedicated forum (or a subforum) helps a lot then to centralize effort

2) Having a clear, unambiguous and realistic goal is a must.

Both goal and limits of your project should made clear before starting anything.

3) On the other hand a large modding community can and will share a lot of knowledge and tools, in this case the more is the best.
[color="SeaGreen"]Paradox Modding Subforum[/color] is the place where to be !

4) Pride of Nations is still very young.
I won't be surprised to see a first patch within few weeks and a second in a few monthes, (plus DLCs/Expanctions probably underway) which means that BIG MODDING PROJECTS have to take this in count, ie no need to mod the "Franco-Prussian War" and find it coming along with next DLC

When comes to my own projects, I should say that before committing myself to design an alternate history scenario I would better to clean and polish the existing countries and scenarios.

For instance, Sardinia-Piedmont start with both unified italian flag and TAG, which I don't like at all, I would like historical flag and specific TAG, (because she could fail to unify Italy and other italian minor like Papal State or Two Sicily should get a chance too ) also her starting structures aren't that good ( but gameplay-needs hit us here) and their naming are awful

* the so called hardcore of Pr0n

Best regards

[PhilThib]

We had no Italian-speaker on the team for the names, so any help from our dear Latin neighbour will be greatly appreciated here

[Generalisimo]

For instance, Sardinia-Piedmont start with both unified italian flag and TAG, which I don't like at all, I would like historical flag and specific TAG, (because she could fail to unify Italy and other italian minor like Papal State or Two Sicily should get a chance too )

I supose you want the "blue" flag, right?
Well, according to the sources, it was changed in 1848...

After 23 March 1848 the Kingdom of Sardinia adopted the Italian tricolor on which it added the Savoy shield with blue border. Later, on 15 April 1848, it adopted a naval ensign and war flag, which was the same flag but with crown above the shield. Those flags became the flags of the Kingdom of Italy.

so, you say that's not right?

Changing the TAG is a big nono... all the events and decisions are tied up to the ITA tag... so, sorry, that can't happen.

also her starting structures aren't that good ( but gameplay-needs hit us here) and their naming are awful

Gamebalance will hit you straight into the face...
On the other hand, the names of the structures can be easilly corrected... if you want, send me a PM with your email address and you can edit the names on an Excel file.

[Amadeus_66]

We had no Italian-speaker on the team for the names, so any help from our dear Latin neighbour will be greatly appreciated here

Il n'y a pas de probléme, si tu veut je suis là !

No problem, I'm here !

Where I find the proper name's file so that I can correct them for you ?


By the way I'm born (and grown) in TORINO, capital of Sardinia-Piedmont.

[Amadeus_66]

I supose you want the "blue" flag, right?
Well, according to the sources, it was changed in 1848...

My bad, you are right of course, 23/03/1848 modello Bigozzi ( the Secretary of Interior Minister who draw it)

Changing the TAG is a big nono... all the events and decisions are tied up to the ITA tag... so, sorry, that can't happen.

too bad we can't change TAG by event !

On the other hand, the names of the structures can be easilly corrected... if you want, send me a PM with your email address and you can edit the names on an Excel file.

Sure I will, on the other hand some Sardinian structures now they have names which will be good for post-union Italy (like Padua Ferro or Berretta, which is in Lombardia actually) so how can I manage those names then ?
Having one only TAG for both Italy and SardiniaPiedmont means one only name's pool, doesn't it ?

Best regards

[Hohenlohe]

Hello Hohenlohe,

I will definitively help you in the limited extent of my knowledge and skill.

Nevertheless I had not time to play at all these last days and I'm still reading the manual, the forums (here and paradox) and testing the starting conditions in game....and when coming to modding AGEOD game I'm a total newbie so more time to learn.....

Anyway, if I may suggest you a few pragmatical approaches:

1) Having a small group of experienced, history feeded and motivated players as the hard-core nucleus* of the modding effort is a must.

Democratic metods doesn't work well when applied to projects where tens or hundreds of peoples dispute themselves about every single detail in some controversial historical event....

Having a dedicated forum (or a subforum) helps a lot then to centralize effort

2) Having a clear, unambiguous and realistic goal is a must.

Both goal and limits of your project should made clear before starting anything.

3) On the other hand a large modding community can and will share a lot of knowledge and tools, in this case the more is the best.
[color="SeaGreen"]Paradox Modding Subforum[/color] is the place where to be !

4) Pride of Nations is still very young.
I won't be surprised to see a first patch within few weeks and a second in a few monthes, (plus DLCs/Expanctions probably underway) which means that BIG MODDING PROJECTS have to take this in count, ie no need to mod the "Franco-Prussian War" and find it coming along with next DLC

When comes to my own projects, I should say that before committing myself to design an alternate history scenario I would better to clean and polish the existing countries and scenarios.

For instance, Sardinia-Piedmont start with both unified italian flag and TAG, which I don't like at all, I would like historical flag and specific TAG, (because she could fail to unify Italy and other italian minor like Papal State or Two Sicily should get a chance too ) also her starting structures aren't that good ( but gameplay-needs hit us here) and their naming are awful

* the so called hardcore of Pr0n

Best regards

Dear Amadeus, your commitment to the Modder Group is heartly welcome.
Until now I am more active in this forum than at the PDOX one, but you are right it should be necessary to be present at the PDOX Modding Subforum, but as I was not so present the last years I would get some small problems founding a appropriate group there but if the Philippes are able to intermediate in this case it should be no problem although I would also use some presence here.

And regarding your suggestion to help polishing the current Campaigns and scenarios it would be no great problem to me to start with such work.
My first suggestion would be not only to check the grand campaign but also to take a look on the Second Boers War and to see if there would be some improvement needed because it was so easy to win with the Boers, sry for that. If necessary I could upload my save file.

Regarding to your knowledge of Italian history we could take a very different look at the historical events of our home countries and then we would see if we could improve some events and such else to make it more interesting for all of us.

Perhaps we could later on creating new scenarios like the Triple Alliance War in South America from 1865 to 1870 or even the Chinese-Japanese War of 1898 as I remember or the reknown War between Ethiopia and Italy around 1896 or even the Mahdi Rebellion in the late 19th century or the Zulu War of 1879.

greetings

Hohenlohe aka MikeFrank

[Amadeus_66]

Dear friend,

my knowledge of italian history isn't that good you may think of, but I can make researches in my own language thus accessing (potentially) more informations about local history.

For the time in being I'm correcting names of structures and collecting informations about the historical ships of the time.

For exemples here are the names of Royal Sardinian Navy' ships up to 1840, which I could find searching the italian net.

Next I'm going to compile an exhaustive collection of Italian Navy' ships (Regia Marina) at 1861, extracted from the official [color="RoyalBlue"]Almanacco storico navale[/color] of Marina Militare website.

In the meantime I've not started to play yet.

So if any of you potential modders need researches/translations from italian language let me know.

Regards

[Hohenlohe]

After playing with some campaigns as the Ottomans or Paraguay or the German I had some enlightenment that I should simply start modding one or two countries which are not playable from start.

And now I have decided to try my luck with the "Californian Republic - the Bear Republic - because it was nearly possible that they had to become independant from Mexico.

Thus I will do an alternative historical approach with the assumption that "California" is yet independant at start of the GC1850 and will be leaded by its President John Sutter -okay somehow ahistorical, but what would have happened if he could hide the Gold from any Outsider and would have financed some reliable guards to protect his "New Helvetia" long enough to become so powerful that he could overtake power in the young Republic.

Additional I will try to implement special units like the legendary "Nautilus" and "Captain Nemo" and eventually some other specials, but that will need some time and many trials...Because I has started modifying some certain files for the first time...The first thing I will try is to add californian provinces to the Republic and then I will try to create some appropriate Rulers - for that I will use some historical governors(*mmmhhh* I could do some joking and send Schwarzenegger back to the past that he could change his personal problems...*giggle*...just imagine the legendary Gobernator as a war hero during first world war...*pprrssst**laughing**ROFL* or as some Terminator-Unit...) or Nikola Tesla the legendary inventor with some totally new Airship...*mmmhhh* what about an early modern ironclad named "The Flying Dutchman" which would work as a californian Commerce Raider...and this would all be possible by the californian Gold wealthiness...

If some of you would like to help me than you could do me a favor and just looking at wikipedia for appropriate generals of californian origin related to the ACW timeframe...if I am correct then A.S.Johnson would be one of them...

The future planning incorporates some Immigration events like the great immigration of Europeans shortly after some Gold Rush but before there must be some small immigration waves from Germany(due to the 1848 revolution outcome) and perhaps some Hungarian immigration...
Eventually there would possible to create some political or scientific reforms as events especially after the appearance of Nikola Tesla and eventually the foundation of the Californian Institute of Technology related to Tesla...
Perhaps I could implement a military reform related to the Prussian Reform because of the European origin of Sutter who would be a President for lifetime until the first political reform after some immigration...There would be possible to create a retirement event for him then...

Then there will be the American Indian Question and what to do with them.
either I would do the usual Way of the White Man and decimate them or I would integrate them as free citizens...

Then I must implement a Californian ethnicity like something as the Hispano-American or the possible descendants of catholic european origin to make them different from the Yankees and Dixies...*mmmhhh*
Then how many provinces should I implement:
First the original Upper California Region, then eventually Baja California, the most of the Nevada Territory and half of the Arizona Territory because there will be a small Apache Nation and eventually the Mormone State of Utah(Deseret...?!?) with a possible Mormon ethnicity and a related Mormon religion which should be possible...Perhaps I could do it totally ahistorical and gave some parts of Oregon to California.And eventually would I create the Sioux Nation or however I would call them...

And to do it more ahistorical I would try to colonize Hawaii with California and not with the USA. Then the Black Ships to Japan would now come from California or I would do it like a rat race event who would be faster...

And in behalf of the upcoming Secession War I would implement an event for an alliance between California and the CSA because after an US victory California would be the next aim...That would means that I must change some US events f.e. the Spanish-American War event because that would be in the range of California thus I could try to do an event where the Californian President can choose between the CSA or the Union for an alliance or stay neutral. I hope that this could be made possible...

Another important event would be the purchase of Alaska that would be no problem with californian Gold but also here the Russians could possibly choose and therefore there must be some special pre-requisites to fulfill for each country( eventually a relation to diplomatic relations...)

The result of this all would perhaps mean a tri-partite North America - the USA, perhaps the CSA, California and eventually a free Canada...

As I have not much experience I think I would need about maximum a half of a year to show some certain results with this changes...

*mmmhh* I will see...

if someone else would be curious enough to participate in this modding affair he would be welcome...

heartly greetings...

Hohenlohe...

edit: that all means that I need a PON-related DB-Editor or some useful tools...I think that for graphics Gimp would be enough and for some xls-files I still have either Open Office or MS Office Home and Student 2007 original and registered available on my shelves...
The main problem here will be the necessary work with a csv-splitter tool and such else...especially the inc-files could become some problem...

[Hohenlohe]

Forgive me dear fellows if I get this theme back to life, has anyone some idea how to make California as a own State in POn or as a own scenario with some own scripts...what should I regard for that...

greetings

Hohenlohe

[yellow ribbon]

oh, the idea is not that bad...

WAD in game you get the territories of Texas and California somehow... they get even own flags in the diplomacy. maybe one can exploit this situation

[Hohenlohe]

oh, the idea is not that bad...

WAD in game you get the territories of Texas and California somehow... they get even own flags in the diplomacy. maybe one can exploit this situation

I hope that it is possible to get a spreadsheet to what is necessary to make an own entry for California or even Texas as indepandant countries with an kind of invitation to form an alliance with the CSA anno 1861 against the USA...

I was looking the next time how I can give regions to an independant California...events are something which has to implement it is even all new terrain for me but it should be possible to create something new even for an modding newbie like myself...

If you wish to help me you are welcome because you have more insight in economics than myself and for california it must be viable to create a good economic...

greetings

Hohenlohe