Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:I'd say, in two particular points: first one is winter 1918 - 1919, when Denikin removes Krasnov using his cooperation with the Germans and his support for an autonomous Don state to accuse him of "selling Russia to the Germans".
And the second one is when Wrangel gathers enough support among the high-ranking officers to openly contest Denikin's powers. Historically it was in late 1919. Without Denikin knowing Wrangel prepared a general meeting of commanders in Rostov planned on 17th december, but Denikin found out and directly forbid them to gather. He also outmanuevered Wrangel by making him the commander of Volunteer Army instead of Maj-Maevski (but not the commander of Southern White army!), a very smart move that left Wrangel with his hands completely tied.
In game terms this should probably be dynamic: it was the loud Tsaritsin victory that allowed Wrangel to become prominent enough, and then he was put in charge of relatively quiet front, and, what is more important, denied enough men and supplies to achieve another one.
I think, we should discuss these two points separately and very closely.
Well, let's say only the first point. The second point is like the Kolchak point : it's too late for many reasons. And it is anyway already simply and well simulated in the game (when the South White NM is very low, then Wrangel can win its political struggle against Denikin).
Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:First of all, Krasnov: no. Definitely and absolutely no. Krasnov was a mortal enemy of leftist parties, SR in particular. He once said "I have four enemies: intelligentsia, putting party interests above Russian interests, — my most dangerous enemy; general Denikin; foreigners - Germans and Allies; Bolsheviks. And the latter I fear least of all, because I fight them openly, and they don't try to disguise as my friends."
Interesting. So Krasnov would be for an autocratic government like Kolchak which would, at the best, lead to no cooperation with a Komuch still holding Volga theater (so no serious Independences recognition because Whites conserve military leaders in the South and in the North would not apply it). And, if the Komuch is later expelled South instead of Siberia, we would had somethink like the Directory and a Krasnov Coup in South Russia instead of Siberia (so no Independences recognition at all)...
Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:Wrangel... I don't think so either. True, Wrangel was more politically able than any other white leader, but he was right-wing. Also, old nobility, and openly monarchist. Not a pal for the SR. Let's say, Wrangel, afrer taking power, could be willing to ally with the SR - invite them to the government, etc., but SR in power would probably send Wrangel to Serbia even faster than Denikin.
I won't be so sure. Look : "Kappel commanded the Komuch People's Army. Declaring himself as a monarchist, Kappel however said he would fight under any banner against Bolsheviks".
Komuch had so fiew "liberal" generals, that it had to recruit most of its military among conservative generals even at the High command. This explain also why the Kolchak Coup was not opposed by the Komuch People's Army main commanders.
Maybe Krasnov would walk sometimes with the Komuch, if the Komuch is the next Russian Governement which warranty him a Don political autonomy (so concretely, a little territory where he can still be an autocrat...).
Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:But! I see a third way here.
Denikin's excuse for not doing anything political was "we're not a legitimate government". Now, if Komuch evacuates to the South, he gets his legitimate governmet! Kadets who are already there plus SR and Mensheviks from Komuch - that's a perfect representation of the Constitutent assembly. Even same people, mostly.
We could maybe suppose that Denikin would obey the Komuch but only if it is no weak, so if its Volga basis is not Red controlled, and if it is supported by the Western Allies.
But we still have to know if the Komuch really planed a federative State and would allow the independences abroad.
Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:1) Krasnov wins. An independent Don State becomes the main force fighting Bolshevism. Easy alliances, the recignition problem doesn't even present itself, very limited allied support, Don functions as good as any other normal state - good economy, regular recruitment, fully working civil administration. Also, leftist unrest and no alliance with Siberia until Kolchak coup.
2) Wrangel wins. Occupied territories get a pretty decent civil administration. Recognition of independencies theoretically possible. Cossacks are treated ok enough to continue fighting.
3) Denikin gets Komuch and stays in power. Again, liberated lands are working better, and the government gets much more public support (SR are popular and are very good at propaganda), but no independencies (SR support them, but more numerous kadets, led by all-poweful Denikin, do not).
This pretty much sums up all options Southern Whites had. What do you think?
I think it exist a last "option" : the "addition" of all 3 generals...
If the Komuch is still alived and backed by the Western power in early 1919, it is then the contemporay arbiter of the quarrels between the 3 generals... and it is then much more easy to slow down the arguments and maybe keep them all or 2 of them.
Rasputin's Own Bear wrote:Ooof. Can I have my slivovica now?
You're welcomed anytimes in the western Alps to taste our eau-de-vie !