User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Sedgwick (Southern Whites) Vs. Cleburne (Communists)

Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:02 am

Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne will be playing the Communists, I will be playing the Southern Whites, with patch 1.04. This will be the first RUS PBEM for both of us. I have suggested one house rule: to simulate intelligence failures and spice up the battle for hearts and minds, once every other turn or so, Pat may ask me questions such as, "What units are you building, if any?" or "What is your primary objective in this theatre?", and I will give him some hints taking into account the areas that I control which are more loyal to him.

Those of you who have read my CSA Narrative AAR already know I have an obsession for things naval, and a predeliction for encirclement and destruction. My strategy for this game will be in some ways similar to the one I employed against Yellowhammer in AACW: build up a powerful brown water navy, and use rivers as force multipliers to pocket and destroy enemy armies along strategic rail routes. The signal difference this time around is that I will be on the offense rather than the defense, and my opponent will enjoy the advantage of interior lines for the most part.

I will be applying the concepts of Deep Battle doctrine: launch attacks on a wide front including feints to keep the enemy guessing; pierce the enemy's defensive lines with infantry and massed artillery; exploit the breakthrough with mobile forces, cutting them off from supply by targeting depots in the operational depth; then target their reserves in the strategic depth with a rapid offensive, while pocketing and destroying their front line forces through a process of strangulation. The idea is render the enemy psychologically incapable of mounting an effective operational defense by interrupting his decision-making process in a way that forces him to react to my advances piecemeal and be destroyed in detail.

This is the plan for 1918. I will advance north along three axes, with the main thrust coming from Tsaritsyn. Circles indicate potential pockets. Most of them are strategic rail junctions situated near rivers.

Opening moves on the Don Front. Pay attention to Drozdovsky - you may be seeing a lot of him, assuming he doesn't get himself killed, the brave bastard.
[ATTACH]16313[/ATTACH]
Attachments
Don Front.jpg
StratMapJune18.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage
ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:17 am

I have just sent the first turn. Settings: historical attrition for all; standard/normal/medium activation and naval box rules; Colonel AI Siberian faction, normal aggression with medium FOW detect bonus, all other AI settings maximized (not that it'll help much! I may take over the Siberians if they fail badly, but for now it saves me time plotting orders). House rules: no hordes of tiny raider units; maybe hints.


[ATTACH]16315[/ATTACH]
Revised Don Front: Objective is to annihilate forces inside pocket and other targets of opportunity, sieze the depots, cities and railways ASAP to secure our flanks for a northern offensive in July. Don Cossack Army and Denisov's Column will assume a mutually supporting position south of Red forces in Zernograd; Sidorin's Column will establish control in the regions to the west while Volunteer Army remains in Azov; Poliakov and Mamontov will advance toward Tsaritsyn while Fitzlaurekhov will sieze railway north of same. Gunboats under construction in Azov. Reinforcements ordered for Southern White infantry, cavalry, and light vehicles.
Attachments
RevisedDonFront.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
ERISS
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:25 am
Location: France

Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:44 am

John Sedgwick wrote:House rules: no hordes of tiny raider units

What is it for?

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:59 am

ERISS: maybe this rule is more appropriate to AACW than RUS, we just didn't want to deal with unreasonable swarms of single-unit raids over long distances. I don't see it being a problem though.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
ERISS
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1975
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:25 am
Location: France

Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:43 pm

John Sedgwick wrote:ERISS: maybe this rule is more appropriate to AACW than RUS, we just didn't want to deal with unreasonable swarms of single-unit raids over long distances.

Yes, in AACW, these raids are not historical wise; only very few mounted infantry did it (that was a 'regular' war).
In RUS I think they are not bad (historically they even can be the main tactic for some sides), but you do as you want if you find these many raids are not fun.

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:56 pm

In RUS I think they are not bad (historically they even can be the main tactic for some sides), but you do as you want if you find these many raids are not fun.

Agreed, it makes sense historically for the RCW. Pat mentioned that he doesn't like dealing with insane hordes, so I suggested this rule. I really don't mind if he wants to send a swarm of locusts my way - it will be challenging and perhaps frustrating but that's part of the fun for me. I won't be employing many raiders anyway - I want to sieze the railways and depots intact if I can, and I need every able bodied man I can get for my army if I'm going to be advancing on a wide front at a disadvantage for manpower.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1870
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:21 pm

Excellent to read an AAR written for RUS, Thanks, :)
It will be very interesting to see how the game will evolve with an AI and two players battling .
On the point I m still not sure about what type of house rules should be used in Rus about raiding. But at some point whites should try to limit Reds requisition options by raiding or some naval landing into interior lines from maybe Kiev to march north. I think Siberians have more opportunities to try naval strategies in which played by AI. I think Sıberian AI can be a bit tricky for the other white player. Reds can use some partisans in Ural and far east theatre to distract cossack armies that they go hunting them unnecessarily.
With this patch the main advantage of Reds are numbers. As now Red infantry does not train automatically by themselves from conscripts to regular status(It will be common to see 2-3 star red concripts with low discipline value through out the game that few of them promote to regular). On the other hand whites have many training officers that can train conscripts even though they can not command them in a division. Whites have twice discipline advantage against reds. It will be interesting to see how it will balance out .

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:41 pm

East and west are dead ends now that I have tenuously secured the railway, so I expect the Army of North Caucausus to go either north or south. I am trying to drive him back on his supplies at Armavir and into the arms of Denisov and the Don Cossack Army, who are waiting aboard trains with offensive ROE to practically ensure MTSG - it works against the AI, but Pat may smell something fishy about the fact I didn't take the depot on turn 1, and I left my northerly defenses very weak, so I am reinforcing Azov and Bataisk in case he tries to take one of mine at Azov or Novocherkassk while he has local naval superiority.
[ATTACH]16330[/ATTACH]
Attachments
LateJune18.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:02 am

[ATTACH]16331[/ATTACH]
The Army of North Caucausus attempts to escape the pocket but is repulsed at Bataisk.

[ATTACH]16332[/ATTACH]
I am hoping any attempt at outside relief will come from the direction of Tsaritsyn, so I am reinforcing Poliakov's position while Mamontov secures his flank behind the river; Drozdovsky is ordered to join Denisov's Corps in preparation for the coup de grace.

[ATTACH]16333[/ATTACH]
Allied expeditionary forces will land at Archangelsk and help the secure the railway south. They will eventually rejoin the Northern Army for an advance on Petrograd, but for now I want to keep Pat guessing with a feint in the direction of the Volga, and remind him of my naval transport capabilities in the Arctic Sea.
Attachments
NorthFront.jpg
EarlyJuly18Ord.jpg
bataiskbattle.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Mon Nov 07, 2011 2:38 am

Baris: thanks for commenting, I'm glad you're interested. I think AACW will always be my sentimental favourite, but RUS is an underappreciated gem - I am quite enthralled by it at the moment.

On the point I m still not sure about what type of house rules should be used in Rus about raiding. But at some point whites should try to limit Reds requisition options by raiding or some naval landing into interior lines from maybe Kiev to march north. I think Siberians have more opportunities to try naval strategies in which played by AI.

I'll certainly be doing some raiding, and I'll be sure to try the Siberians at some point, too, with a naval strategy. Some see rivers, I see ropes... the Don and the Volga will make excellent nooses :niark:
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:21 am

[ATTACH]16337[/ATTACH]
Late July, 1918: Sorokin slipped the noose via Salsk, putting Kornilov's division to flight, bypassing Krasnov and Denisov. I am really kicking myself for this one - I should've stayed put with two supporting corps on trains while Kornilov secured the remainder of the pocket - but woulda coulda shoulda, what are you gonna do? Much now depends on Lukomsky delaying any attempt by Sorokin to flee west until Poliakov can reinforce him in 3 days - if he succeeds in his forced march. Meanwhile, I am still hoping for a Red relief force to come barreling down that railway. Fitskhelaurov and Drozdovsky will attempt to cut off their line of retreat north of Tsaritsyn if they take the bait while Denisov and the Don Cossack Army assume defensive positions between two rivers.


[ATTACH]16338[/ATTACH]
Late July, 1918: Despite Lukomsky's best attempts to delay the enemy's crossing, Sorokin escapes yet another attempted encirclement.


[ATTACH]16340[/ATTACH]
Early August, 1918: Just as I had hoped, Stalin arrives just in time to join his comrades in getting cutting off from their lines of communication. Plans A and B have failed, so now it is time for plan C - C for Cauldron. I don't expect to destroy them, but I hope to stir the pot a bit before it boils over :cool: Drozdovsky and Fitskhelaurov's positions north of Tsaritsyn are to be heavily reinforced, while Shkurov is sent to Balashov with orders to destroy the railway in the direction of Moscow.
Attachments
EarlyAug18Orders.jpg
BattleYashalta.jpg
LateJuly18Orders.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:09 am

[ATTACH]16344[/ATTACH]
Forces at Balashov are wiped out by Trotsky's relief column. Shkuro lies wounded, his White Wolves are no more. It is a sad day for the White Army.


[ATTACH]16342[/ATTACH]
The strategic situation in Late August, 1918


[ATTACH]16343[/ATTACH]
Orders for Late August, 1918.

[ATTACH]16345[/ATTACH]
Early September, 1918: Krasnov assembles the Don Cossack Army immediately north of Tsaristyn; Denisov orders a forced march to join him, while Sidorin and the Volunteer Army attempt to secure the areas south and west of the city.
Attachments
EarlySept18Orders.jpg
BattleBalashov1.jpg
LateAug18Orders.jpg
StratMapLateAug.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Narwhal
Posts: 789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Paris

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:54 am

Very interesting.

You should post it on the Paradox forum at the same time - there are a lot of readers there, and this way you would show the games to people that still don't have it !

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:32 pm

Thanks Narwhal - that is a good idea!
EDIT: here we go.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Narwhal
Posts: 789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Paris

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:04 pm

This word file allows you to just copy / paste into Paradox's forum to rewrite your AAR there.

I am actively trying to convert people there and have had successful responses from my RoP and WiA AAR... and the more AGEod is successful, the more games we have :)

If you are going to use it, you might drop a mail to Rafiki, as the pictures are hossted on the AGEOD site, to warn him. Else, it might be seen as leeching. I think it should be no problem, though, as AAR are basically free advert ;)
Attachments

[The extension doc has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]


User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:39 pm

Ulagai is killed in action and his cavalry wiped out by Trotsky north of Tsaritsyn.

[ATTACH]16350[/ATTACH]
Krasnov prevents Trotsky from relieving Stalin's trapped forces in Tsaritsyn at the battle of Ilovlya. Fitskhelaurov is killed in action.


[ATTACH]16351[/ATTACH]
Orders for Late September, 1918: Denisov is fortifying his position in Ilovlya against any further attempts by Trotsky or Stalin to escape the Tsaritsyn pocket. Sidorin is reassigned to the Don Cossack Army and sent to Kalach-on-Don, while Mamontov and Poliakov are sent to secure the areas east of the city. Raiding parties are despatched to tear up the railway and gather intelligence on enemy supply depots.


[ATTACH]16352[/ATTACH]
The strategic situation in Early October, 1918, showing encircled forces in Tsaritsyn.



[ATTACH]16349[/ATTACH]
Orders for Early October, 1918: Shkuro is sent to deal with some pesky partisan activity in the south after Novossoyirsk falls to Communist guerrillas. Krasnov expects Stalin to attempt another breakout at Ilovlya in concert with Trotsky, so Wrangel orders a forced march to merge with Denisov's Corps. Mamontov and Poliakov will cut the railway east of Tsaritsyn, in the unlikely event that the Reds try to extract their forces across the Volga.
Attachments
StraMapEarlyOct18.jpg
LateSept18Orders.jpg
BattleIvolya.jpg
EarlyOct18Orders.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:24 am

We're up to Late November, 1918. I'll update later, but I just wanted to vent my frustration at a very, very painful mistake - I was expecting an attack on Denisov's Corps, so I had Don Cossack Army set to move by rail on offensive posture 1 day away, thinking their MTSG chance would be 100%

Well, Denisov got mauled, and half my elite formations were destroyed. Krasnov never came to the rescue as I had planned. I couldn't figure out what went wrong, until I looked at a screenshot and double-checked the turn - Don Cossack Army was set to evade combat! AAAARGH!

Oh well, live and learn. I sent these orders after a night out drinking, so let this be a lesson, kids: don't drink and PBEM.
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:39 am

I have asked my opponent if he will allow that turn to be replayed with Krasnov's evade combat order deselected, leaving my orders otherwise unchanged while allowing him to change his if he so chooses. I hate to ask him because I don't want to seem like a sore loser, especially when I'm winning right now in the grand scheme of things, but it is a hard lump to swallow considering things likely would've played out in my favour if I had caught my mistake.

Given that I've still got Stalin by the balls in Tsaritsyn, I won't blame Pat or think any less of him if he decides to take any victory he can get, and I will keep playing having learned my lesson since it's all for fun anyways, but I will probably give up on this AAR. I didn't tell Pat that (don't want it to influence his decision), but it's a little embarrassing having to write that I lost the cream of the White Army because I clicked the wrong button and failed to notice because I was tipsy :bonk:
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:51 pm

Pat and I have decided to treat this as a learning experience and start over because he believes it will be impossible to beat a decent Red player with only one player-controlled White faction. He's probably right. I'll post in the PBEM forums later, but I thought I'd say this here first: would any of my readers like to join a three player game as the Siberians (or Reds for that matter, if Pat is willing to play the Siberians)?
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
Narwhal
Posts: 789
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:13 pm
Location: Paris

Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:24 pm

Sorry for what happened on Paradox's forum.

Also - I am not available, even though I would have loved to. I am a terrible RUS player anyway.

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:31 pm

That's okay Narwhal, I should've read the forum rules before posting.

Know anyone else who might be interested in playing the Siberians?
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

User avatar
John Sedgwick
Colonel
Posts: 388
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:15 pm
Location: NL, Canada

Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:55 am

[ATTACH]16370[/ATTACH]
Late October, 1918: Stalin goes to ground in Tsaritsyn. He's either laying a trap, or he doesn't want to risk being destroyed in the field, so Sidorin is ordered to advance cautiously from the south along with Mai-Maievski's Corps, while Denisov attempts to secure the recently vacated railway at Kotovo.

[ATTACH]16371[/ATTACH]
Early Novemeber, 1918.

[ATTACH]16372[/ATTACH]
Expecting another relief attempt at Kotovo, Denisov's position is reinforced by rail while Krasnov waits in Ilovlya aboard trains set to offensive posture. If you look closely you can see the "Evade Combat" icon to the right of Krasnov's portrait :bonk:

I thought I had a screenshot of the ensuing epic failure at Kotovo the next turn, but we don't need to see the gory details :blink:

EDIT: I think I just figured out what went wrong: I must have ordered reinforcements to Ilovlya to merge with Don Cossack Army when it was just a few cavalry elements set to evade, and then missed my mistake when I performed my final checks the next turn (I usually double and triple check my postures and ROEs before sending the turn, but I got lazy).
Attachments
EarlyNov18Orders.jpg
StratMapNov18.jpg
LateOct18Orders.jpg
"I'm ashamed of you, dodging that way. They couldn't hit an elephant at this distance."ImageImage

ImageImageImageImageImage

Return to “RUS: Revolution Under Siege AARs”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest