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Is there anyway to have this not happen?

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:33 pm
by Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
[ATTACH]16455[/ATTACH]

I'm talking about losing a general in a battle with no casualties on your side. I like that you actually have to worry about leader deaths in RUS, but I think the intensity of the battle should have something to do with the results. I don't remember ever seeing this until 1.04 and now it's happened to me on 2 different games. Has anyone else run into this problem recently or before?

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:51 am
by Highlandcharge
I have been looking at this also...

I had a battle with some red guards and some white cavalry, there was a line on the turn info log telling me the red guards had tried to avoid battle due to low cohesion but had failed, then telling me that the red guards had succeeded from retreating from the battle after taking 11 hits... the battle report that followed showed no casualties for my guards but 82 for the white cavalry, I checked my red guards and they had went from 1440 men to 720, so they sustained 50% casualties during the retreat from the battle, I dont know why it didn't show the causalities on the battle report, is this a cosmetic bug with the battle report?

I will take some pics and have the save game if needed :)

I have just checked the detailed battle screens and it says the red guards inflicted some damage on the cavalry but received no damage over 4 combat rounds, surely they should have, it looks like a bug :(

Another edit...

In my other pbem game there are 2 battles this turn that have been counted as a draw with no casualties on one side and some inflicted on the other... this must be a bug..

Like I said before I have all the save games if needed..

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:11 pm
by Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
Highlandcharge wrote:I have been looking at this also...

I had a battle with some red guards and some white cavalry, there was a line on the turn info log telling me the red guards had tried to avoid battle due to low cohesion but had failed, then telling me that the red guards had succeeded from retreating from the battle after taking 11 hits... the battle report that followed showed no casualties for my guards but 82 for the white cavalry, I checked my red guards and they had went from 1440 men to 720, so they sustained 50% casualties during the retreat from the battle, I dont know why it didn't show the causalities on the battle report, is this a cosmetic bug with the battle report?

I will take some pics and have the save game if needed :)

I have just checked the detailed battle screens and it says the red guards inflicted some damage on the cavalry but received no damage over 4 combat rounds, surely they should have, it looks like a bug :(

Another edit...

In my other pbem game there are 2 battles this turn that have been counted as a draw with no casualties on one side and some inflicted on the other... this must be a bug..

Like I said before I have all the save games if needed..


Hits taken from a retreat aren't shown on the battle report in any of the AGE games. In many small battles, retreat hits are the majority of the casualties. I think there are some improvements that could be made to the way combat casualties are tallied and displayed, but at least the correct outcome usually happens. (ie you lost 50% of your force and retreated)

Same thing with the minor battles being counted as a draw. The correct side usually retreats and it's not like there would be any NM difference for those small battles. These are mainly cosmetic issues that could be improved so far as I've noticed.

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:33 pm
by Highlandcharge
On reflection you may be right, I have been looking at some small battles in AACW and sometimes there are no casualties on one side, I think there are probably to many draws in RUS... but like you said its only in small battles and is unlikely to affect NM... back to RUS then :)

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:27 pm
by John Sedgwick
I think Pat's right about the stalemates, but this may be relevant to the question about leaders dying: before we started our PBEM game, I played a test game and ran the first turn a few times against the AI to practice my opening moves; every time I ordered Bishkelaurov to assault Grozny, he died while his troops took relatively light losses. I just thought it was a fluke or the result of a random seed number that was prefigured for turn one, but he died assaulting Grozny in our PBEM too, which was a new game. Could be a coincidence, could be armoured trains are just really good at sniping generals leading infantry during siege assaults, who knows, but I thought it worth mentioning.

That said, for the past few turns I've been getting the sneaking suspicion our game may have been corrupted somehow, either that or I'm picking up on preexisting quirks I hadn't noticed before. Have either of you guys noticed your stacks' power levels changing inexplicably? I'm getting this all the time with Sidorin's Corps now, where it'll display 420 power the first time I cycle through his stack using the E-R keys, but if I click on his stack on the map, take a division out and put it back in, his power becomes 388 (which I believe is the true figure). I can't trust my own generals for accurate statistics, but then I suppose that's historically accurate :wacko:

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:49 pm
by Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
Can't say I've noticed that Sedg. Could it be 2 generals with the same seniority switching places when you take the div out and back in?

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:51 pm
by John Sedgwick
Nope, Sidorin remains in command the whole time, and never goes back to 420 power after the first switch.

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 8:59 pm
by Highlandcharge
I have not noticed the strange power changes John, have you tried a fresh install with the 1.04 patch? just an idea :)

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 9:11 pm
by OneArmedMexican
John Sedgwick wrote:before we started our PBEM game, I played a test game and ran the first turn a few times against the AI to practice my opening moves; every time I ordered Bishkelaurov to assault Grozny, he died while his troops took relatively light losses.


Rewinding doesn't mean the game redoes all the calculations, that is why you got the same combat result (dead general) every time.

John Sedgwick wrote:I'm getting this all the time with Sidorin's Corps now, where it'll display 420 power the first time I cycle through his stack using the E-R keys, but if I click on his stack on the map, take a division out and put it back in, his power becomes 388 (which I believe is the true figure). I can't trust my own generals for accurate statistics, but then I suppose that's historically accurate :wacko:


That quirk isn't new. The overall commander of a stack (in your case Sidorin) influences the combat strength of the units in his stack with his stats. Perhaps that calculation is only done during turn resolution? But that is just a guess. :confused:

Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne wrote:[ATTACH]16455[/ATTACH]
I'm talking about losing a general in a battle with no casualties on your side. I like that you actually have to worry about leader deaths in RUS, but I think the intensity of the battle should have something to do with the results. I don't remember ever seeing this until 1.04 and now it's happened to me on 2 different games. Has anyone else run into this problem recently or before?


This has been a very annoying part of RUS since the game came out. Sometimes the only casualty in a battle is your leader. Or a leader dies who was in command of a division within a bigger stack although his division didn't suffer any casualties.
I played a PBEM with a member of the SEPRUS team a while back and asked him the same question Pat does in this threat. He answered that nothing could be done about this.
I guess the game doesn't calculate the leader death chance in relation to the casulaties their troops take.
My experience is that there are some situations where leader death chances are higher (assaulting structures) but even that may be wrong.
Anyways, it isn't completely unrealistic, didn't Kornilov die because an enemy shell landed on his HQ by accident?

Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:48 pm
by Narwhal
See my WiA AAR, where 2 English leaders died without any loss in my army. So it is not only RUS,it is only more visible there !

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 1:43 am
by John Sedgwick
Highlandcharge - yup, I did a clean install after the MC quirk in Zernograd, but I used the same 1.04 installer I downloaded in October. I'll do another install and try redownloading the patch though, just to be sure.

OneArmedMexican - yea, I figured those calculations were being reused, the casualties differed with different ROEs, but Bishkelaurov was always among them, so I suppose in reality he only died twice in a row (the test game and the PBEM).

I knew that leaders influenced the strength of their units, but I'd never noticed this phenomenon before. I suppose it could have something to do with the effects of stats being calculated only during turn resolution, but in my experience they are updated in realtime when switching leaders for example, so presumably it should automatically reflect Sidorin's influence on the base stats? I dunno. Any idea which figure is the more accurate one?

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:16 am
by John Sedgwick
Well, I redownloaded the game and the latest patch, did a clean install, and now Sidorin is reading 424 consistently, while Drozdovsky is giving me an optimistic first estimate. Yet the show must go on through the fog and friction of war... ;)

Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:48 pm
by barbu
"Tovarischi Popov, vat iz your strength?"
"424, tovarischi Lenin! The workers are rising against the oppression of..."
"424? Are you SURE, tovarischi Popov?"
"Well.... uh... 388 actually."
[Lenin slaps himself across the face]

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:12 am
by Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
[ATTACH]16606[/ATTACH]

I'm just gonna post these when they happen until it gets fixed or a dev says to shutup and deal with it. :cool: (this was with the new FY version but still...)

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:22 am
by Pocus
a battle is made of rounds, and each round there is a small chance that a leader get a stray bullet in the head, this is not linked to the amount of losses you took though.

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:59 pm
by caranorn
Concerning the Sidorin issue. Wouldn't he have Cohesion bonus to any elements commanded? If so once you remove a unit from his command it would lose its cohesion bonus. So f.ex. if it had a modified cohesion of 90 and Sidorin's bonus was +5, the unit would after removal from Sidorin's command have a new cohesion of 85, if you put the unit back into Sidorin's force the unit will now show as 85/90 cohesion, so no longer at full cohesion and therefore show a lower power level than before you moved around the unit...