User avatar
ERISS
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 2116
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:25 am
Location: France

Adaptative Game Engine: the RUS lesson

Mon May 23, 2011 4:06 pm

We should discuss about what is missing in AGE engine for RUS, in the dream where a RUS 2.0 (patch, or sold as a new game?) could be released with a new engine.

What I noted or saw:

. Units faction can't change (whole regiment could go by itself to the ennemy or allied).
Grigoriev switchings could be a bad example, as it could be a faction by himself, but some Red regiments had joined makhnovists.
------------------------------
My secret recipe for my own game (which shouldn't be released finished someday..): Regiments can be lead, compelled or not, by general of another faction. Faction owning it depends of which is stronger (by propaganda or/and State military police and/or "bread&games") between regiment and leader. Propaganda could make regiments prefer other faction, and may switch if some prefered leader is near (killing or rejecting past leader). If no set faction can compel it, the (Green?) regiment may organize itself and choose a general in its own ranks (the Leader could be from another faction, but at start less strong than his regiment).
------------------------------

. Countryside can't feed people (units should be fed by town only if country can bring food to town).
The rich farmings of Ukraine should easily feed units if paesants are not too reluctant (not becoming Green).

. Special Operations are unprecise: http://www.ageod-forum.com/showpost.php?p=206340&postcount=57

I know there are tweaks to 'adapt' (Black becoming Red in beta patch), but the system is still not so good.

User avatar
TheDoctorKing
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:55 pm

I think as a general rule in the AGE system that general supply should be produced in the countryside. Maybe with the PON introduction of "preserved food" we could have that equal supply. It would be useful in AACW to have supply produced by the rich agricultural regions thus giving the CSA some reason to try to hold on to them (central Kentucky, the Valley in Virginia, Missouri, for example).

In RUS, each province should have a potential "yield" in terms of $, CSC, and WS relative to its population, urbanization level, and industrialization. Then, when you conduct a recruitment or special taxation mission there, you get a proportion of that potential yield relative to your population loyalty and military control. It's silly that some howling wasteland in Siberia produces exactly the same as Moscow. I'd like to have the same sorts of options in AACW (and even PON?)

I think units should be able to desert in RUS, but not change sub-faction. They would still be "southern White" units, just working for the Reds, now. Make people buy more different kinds of replacements and limit where they could use their new replacements.
Stewart King

"There is no substitute for victory"

Depends on how you define victory.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:33 pm

According to Evan Mawdsley:

"Between October 1918 and October 1919 the British Military Mission provided the following equipment to Admiral Kolchak at Omsk:

600,000 rifles.
346 million rounds of small arms ammunition.
6,831 machineguns.
192 field guns.
Clothing and personal equipment for 200,500 men.
This quantity of equipment was roughly equal to total Soviet production during 1919. Since the Soviets were fighting on multiple fronts the White Russian forces in Siberia should have been numerically superior in actual combat troops (i.e. more soldiers with proper weapons, equipment and ammunition)."

Maybe "foreign intervention level" can also include the rate of ammunition given to Siberians. Can it be modded or hardcoded in the engine? Or can it be made possible for modding?
I guess Basic supplies were more easier to get but maybe ammuniton should be more scarce.

It will more likely balance out factions that siberia have similar requisition results with Moscowy, Petrograd etc..

User avatar
NY Rangers
Major
Posts: 218
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2007 7:16 pm
Location: Finland

Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:05 am

Baris wrote:According to Evan Mawdsley:

"Between October 1918 and October 1919 the British Military Mission provided the following equipment to Admiral Kolchak at Omsk:

600,000 rifles.
346 million rounds of small arms ammunition.
6,831 machineguns.
192 field guns.
Clothing and personal equipment for 200,500 men.
This quantity of equipment was roughly equal to total Soviet production during 1919. Since the Soviets were fighting on multiple fronts the White Russian forces in Siberia should have been numerically superior in actual combat troops (i.e. more soldiers with proper weapons, equipment and ammunition)."


Some of these weapons were sold to Reds (!) due to corruption...

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:55 am

NY Rangers wrote:Some of these weapons were sold to Reds (!) due to corruption...


Yes most probably. But it would be good if ammunition would be related to foreign help or more related to factories. I think factories only produce war supply.

User avatar
andatiep
Posts: 1427
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Grenoble, France.

Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:00 pm

Baris wrote:Maybe "foreign intervention level" can also include the rate of ammunition given to Siberians. Can it be modded or hardcoded in the engine? Or can it be made possible for modding?
I guess Basic supplies were more easier to get but maybe ammuniton should be more scarce.

It will more likely balance out factions that siberia have similar requisition results with Moscowy, Petrograd etc..


It's quiet easy to MOD some events that give you more Supply/Ammo from the western powers in the big ports they control.

But i would better MOD the global ammo production to reduce it a lot. Then players can spend the huge starting stock which could represent nicely what remain from the WWI production, but when they arrive in 1919, there should be, like it happen, a real lack of ammo, unless the players do build some War manufacture in the Options Layer.

You can MOD it, we are playing with it with TheDoctorKing : http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/A_RUS_wishlist_mini-MODs_workshop#Mini-MOD_.22RCW_War_Productions.22 .

The only problem for now it is that i just read elsewhere that the current AGE ammo consumption feature is broken for now :bonk:
So we have to wait to really see if this MOD is working good...


About food :

Using the same way, you can also reduce the supply production in the towns, but it don't solve the problem we all know : the towns with many levels will always produce more food that the country side towns with one level.

I suppose there might be a solution if we create a new structure (or use an old one like Forts) that would be transformed in some kind of "Intensive farming area". Then all other structures are set to 1 or 0 supply production when this new structure only provide a lot of food.
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1914
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:50 pm

Thanks andatiep ,
It seems ammo consumption is at least broken for 1 year and it is somehow unpredictable the effects when it is fixed. But I think ammo& supply production ratio is somewhere between 1/3 or 2/3 in the official age engine and which is very abundant for ammo. But ammo production in cities and food supply coming from countryside is really a good way to reflect most conflicts for also future wargames like Rus. As it is already simulated in PON I guess.

User avatar
TheDoctorKing
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:56 pm
Location: Portland Oregon

Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:31 am

andatiep wrote:.

You can MOD it, we are playing with it with TheDoctorKing : http://www.ageod.net/agewiki/A_RUS_wishlist_mini-MODs_workshop#Mini-MOD_.22RCW_War_Productions.22 .

The only problem for now it is that i just read elsewhere that the current AGE ammo consumption feature is broken for now :bonk:
So we have to wait to really see if this MOD is working good...


I'm noticing that my guys are a little low on ammo in some places, especially the Southerners who haven't been able to build any ammo factories.

As far as food production is concerned, I also think food should come from the countryside. Actually, it would be best if there were four kinds of supply: food, general supply, ammunition, and fuel.
Stewart King



"There is no substitute for victory"



Depends on how you define victory.



[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

User avatar
andatiep
Posts: 1427
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Grenoble, France.

Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:34 pm

TheDoctorKing wrote:I'm noticing that my guys are a little low on ammo in some places, especially the Southerners who haven't been able to build any ammo factories.


Well, i can't give any serious comments about the supply/ammo system in our PBEM game ; i did so much MOD tests and patches while playing with it that our saved game and scenario files can't be an exemple... :D
Maybe i did "repeared" the ammo consumption for the southern whites somehow but don't ask me how :bonk:

TheDoctorKing wrote:As far as food production is concerned, I also think food should come from the countryside. Actually, it would be best if there were four kinds of supply: food, general supply, ammunition, and fuel.


Well, i suppose that for RUS, we have already all in our hands : Supply can be food, War Supply can be your "general supply", ammunition can be ammunition, ...and fuel ...can wait for a new WWII area game :cool: , since it require an advanced AGE i guess to add a new tree... (could belongs to War Supply, at this stage).
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD

Return to “Help to improve RUS”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest