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OneArmedMexican
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Leader deaths

Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:37 pm

One thing that seems out of proportion is the number of leaders that die in this game.

Clovis, I know that you already told me that you might consider lowering the leader death probability slightly and I appreciate that.

But after playing this game some more, I realize that it is not so much the rate at which leaders die but more in what battles they fall. In particular, I loose a lot of leaders in battles without or with very few casualties on my side.

See for example this battle:
[ATTACH]13643[/ATTACH]

It is true a huge number of generals met their death during this conflict. Some in ways that feel almost "accidental" (misguided howitzer fire, etc.)
But come on the commanding admiral falls in a battle where the enemy didn't get a single shot off? Did he have a heart attack or did he slip over a water bucket and broke his neck??? :blink:
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Clovis
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Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:03 pm

OneArmedMexican wrote:One thing that seems out of proportion is the number of leaders that die in this game.

Clovis, I know that you already told me that you might consider lowering the leader death probability slightly and I appreciate that.

But after playing this game some more, I realize that it is not so much the rate at which leaders die but more in what battles they fall. In particular, I loose a lot of leaders in battles without or with very few casualties on my side.

See for example this battle:
[ATTACH]13643[/ATTACH]

It is true a huge number of generals met their death during this conflict. Some in ways that feel almost "accidental" (misguided howitzer fire, etc.)
But come on the commanding admiral falls in a battle where the enemy didn't get a single shot off? Did he have a heart attack or did he slip over a water bucket and broke his neck??? :blink:


We will check that , indeed.
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Seb
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Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:26 pm

Indeed, Cowan shouldn't die here, it will be corrected in the next patch
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Flop
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Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:17 pm

I sometimes lose generals, without any notice appearing. I've also seen generals just disappear, without even participating in a battle, and again, without any notice in log.

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Cat Lord
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Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:39 pm

Flop wrote:I sometimes lose generals, without any notice appearing. I've also seen generals just disappear, without even participating in a battle, and again, without any notice in log.
Was it in the Ice March scenario ?

Because the German advance relocate units, and sometimes they are far away from where they were, but have not been "lost". :)

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Flop
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Sat Nov 27, 2010 11:49 pm

Cat Lord wrote:Was it in the Ice March scenario ?

Because the German advance relocate units, and sometimes they are far away from where they were, but have not been "lost". :)

Cat


It was in the Grand Campaign. In my last turn, I was attacked at Ekaterinodar, where I had a force of ~50,000 men, led by Sorokin and Kalnin. I received a message that Kalnin was killed, but when I looked at the stack, Sorokin was gone, too.

Later in the same turn, I realised that the 2-star general, who starts out in Simbirsk (I don't remember his name), was gone, too. There was no battle in Simbirsk, though, and the stack was just standing there, doing nothing.

Mehring
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 3:53 pm

Yes, there's no doubt, leaders just up and leave. One of them returned in my game, some months later, to where he should have been, but losing 3 generals in a few months is no fun.

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Cat Lord
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:13 pm

Hi guys, to solve the problem of the disappearing leaders, we need the zip of the current turn when you don't see them anymore and the zip of the previous turn.

Mehring has posted two zip on the Matrix forum, but one is turn 2, the other turn 9, so we cannot use them to do the comparison. For the record, the previous turn is always named backup1. Please zip the current turn (several files) and backup1 folder in one single archive, so we can inspect what's going on.

I have never had disappearing leaders, only reallocated units to sometimes weird place in the Ice March scenario, because of the German advance.

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Alexor
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:43 pm

Markov and Drozdovzky went Banzai in the battle of Ekaterinodar in late July 18 for me.
White victory with NO loss against the Reds (12000 inf, 5100 horses and 70 canons against 3000 weakened Reds), oh no wait...2 White losses...General Markov and Drozdovsky.
(probably decided to charge the 3000 Reds before the battle started :blink :)

ps; how do you save a screen ?

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Clovis
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:52 pm

Fixed in the next patch. Less leader deaths.
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:27 pm

Flop wrote:It was in the Grand Campaign. In my last turn, I was attacked at Ekaterinodar, where I had a force of ~50,000 men, led by Sorokin and Kalnin. I received a message that Kalnin was killed, but when I looked at the stack, Sorokin was gone, too.

Later in the same turn, I realised that the 2-star general, who starts out in Simbirsk (I don't remember his name), was gone, too. There was no battle in Simbirsk, though, and the stack was just standing there, doing nothing.
After a battle a message in the message log will tell you if one of your leader was injured. In this case he will be removed from the stack, and lock in a city nearby for a certain number of turn, to recover from his injuries.

Now, that may be an explanation of why you may think the leader have "disappeared".

OTOH, if there was no battle at all, this is very strange and may be a bug, but I have never seen this occurrence.

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:31 pm

Flop wrote:It was in the Grand Campaign. In my last turn, I was attacked at Ekaterinodar, where I had a force of ~50,000 men, led by Sorokin and Kalnin. I received a message that Kalnin was killed, but when I looked at the stack, Sorokin was gone, too.

Later in the same turn, I realised that the 2-star general, who starts out in Simbirsk (I don't remember his name), was gone, too. There was no battle in Simbirsk, though, and the stack was just standing there, doing nothing.


If ever you suffer from a new occurence of this possible bug, send us the last turn and the current turn. It's easy to check if the leader is yet on the map as the savefile can be opened with any notepad. We will do the search, so if the leader isn'tanymore in the saveile, it's a bug. if not, we will explain you where he is and possibly why ;)
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 9:49 pm

I've attached a zip with my current turn (the one I described above). At least, I think so. I have 4 Grand Campaign folders, so I've packed the highest numbered one. That should be the most recent one, right?

Included is the backup1 folder, as well as the files in the Grand Campaign3 folder, which I believe to be the current turn. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll upload the correct files.

Edit: It turns out that Sorokin disappeared several turns earlier, also without any battle taking place, and without any notice. The saves I've uploaded should still show the disappearance of Muraviev in Simbirsk, though.
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Clovis
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:06 pm

Flop wrote:I've attached a zip with my current turn (the one I described above). At least, I think so. I have 4 Grand Campaign folders, so I've packed the highest numbered one. That should be the most recent one, right?

Included is the backup1 folder, as well as the files in the Grand Campaign3 folder, which I believe to be the current turn. Correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll upload the correct files.

Edit: It turns out that Sorokin disappeared several turns earlier, also without any battle taking place, and without any notice. The saves I've uploaded should still show the disappearance of Muraviev in Simbirsk, though.


OK. There's a event: "Muraviev executed" which has been fired this turn. So Muraviev removal is WAD. What's not is the absence of message. We will look at.

So it's not a bug. I will look at the data too to check if other leaders are suffering from other Revolutionary measures and give them the publicity they deserve for the edification of the masses :D
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:09 pm

Clovis wrote:OK. There's a event: "Muraviev executed" which has been fired this turn. So Muraviev removal is WAD. What's not is the absence of message. We will look at.

So it's not a bug. I will look at the data too to check if other leaders are suffering from other Revolutionary measures et give them the publicity they deserve for the edification of the masses :D


Alright, that's good to know. Could that be the case with Sorokin, too? I can upload the saves from a few turns earlier, when he disappeared, if you want to look at them.

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:12 pm

If the event is not reported as it should be, it's a bug. Say "thank you for doing our jobs for us and for nothing" or something.

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:13 pm

Flop wrote:Alright, that's good to know. Could that be the case with Sorokin, too? I can upload the saves from a few turns earlier, when he disappeared, if you want to look at them.



Yes, if you have the files. thanks for your patience, we may as best we can
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:21 pm

These should be the saves, unless I miscounted.
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:25 pm

Flop wrote:These should be the saves, unless I miscounted.


Sorokin was executed too. Mass terror :D
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:27 pm

Clovis wrote:Sorokin was executed too. Mass terror :D


Are these events fixed or random? I don't suppose adding political commissars to a stack affects this?

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:10 pm

Flop wrote:Are these events fixed or random? I don't suppose adding political commissars to a stack affects this?


They are fixed AND random. There 's a 10 % possibility both leaders to be executed each turn. Adding political commissar have no influence about the outcome.
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:16 pm

Clovis wrote:They are fixed AND random. There 's a 10 % possibility both leaders to be executed each turn.


Alright. Is this common to all red leaders, or is it specific to just some of them?

Adding political commissar have no influence about the outcome.


Well, that's good to know. I'd hate to have been the one responsible for killing them, by adding political commissars to their stacks. :)

Thanks for clearing up what was happening.

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Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:16 pm

Flop, are you sure no message about these executions appeared in the message log? I've checked the files and all seems normal :confused: ?
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Flop
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:27 pm

Absolutely sure, at least with regard to Muraviev (I just checked). I didn't check Sorokin, since I'd have to revert to an earlier savegame, but I did check it earlier, before uploading that savegame, and I'm almost sure it didn't say anything about him being executed.

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Clovis
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:42 pm

Flop wrote:Absolutely sure, at least with regard to Muraviev (I just checked). I didn't check Sorokin, since I'd have to revert to an earlier savegame, but I did check it earlier, before uploading that savegame, and I'm almost sure it didn't say anything about him being executed.


So I will look more closely this issue. Thanks :)
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Mehring
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:38 pm

Bela Kun disappears
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Clovis
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:02 pm

Mehring wrote:Bela Kun disappears


Another event: he goes to Hungary...message has to be fixed. ASAP indeed ;)
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Cordell
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:05 pm

I like this feature!
of course a good leader who die could be annoying for our plans (for exemple i lost Denikine on his first battle on the Revolution under siege scenario, fortunatly Wrangel was there to take the lead)

Each single battle become lot more Epic and stressfull with the high rate seing a general being killed.

On the same game during the Pvosk siege 3 one star general die during the assault, what a glorious death to imagine those officier fighting on the first line and inspiring there troop showing the right exemple!)

So please don't reduce to much this general hecatomb (In AACW leaders were almost impossible to kill, that was a bit unrealistic, especially for admiral in raiders btw)

sorry for my english (did nt spelled for a long)

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Alexor
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:13 pm

The death rate is a good feature of the game I think, it does add a lot of stress and variable to the game.
The only problem is when you win with no losses and only your(s) officer(s) get killed as it happened to me once, that is obviously wrong and will be corrected in a patch I'm sure.

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Clovis
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Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:15 pm

Mehring wrote:Bela Kun disappears


I've maybe found the reason about lack of messages for removal events. I will test tonight.

Leader losses will be lowered in the patch. Leaders will yet die, just less frequently.
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