Baris
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White army in Gallipoli as a refuge

Sat Jan 08, 2011 9:13 pm

Some pictures of white army in Gallipoli Turkey.

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White Russian Army on the shore at Gallipoli, probably waiting to depart for Europe in November 1921.

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Families of the White Russian Army on a summer outing.

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Gallipoli was but a temporary refuge for this contingent of General Wrangel’s defeated Southern White Army, which escaped in November 1920 on around 120 commandeered military and civilian ships from the Crimea, the greater portion camping in Constantinople. This photographs is dated as 1920, when this zone was under Allied occupation. The fleet ended in Tunisia, where it was “desarmé”. Of the population on the boats (civilian & military) some settled in Tunisia (there is still a white Russian church in Tunis) or left for other countries (most to Serbia, Bulgaria, Prague and the USA). The boats were returned to the Red Russians a few years later by the French government.



Source:http://www.levantineheritage.com/gallipoli.htm
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Cat Lord
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Sun Jan 09, 2011 6:47 pm

Nice pics, thanks ! :cool:

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Alexor
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Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:44 pm

There is actually a (beautiful) web site of an association of Gallipoli soldiers descendants (mostly emigres in France)

http://www.gallipoli.fr/

Baris
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:58 am

Great web site thanks,
Rented building for General A.V. Kutepov's headquarters:

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In present: There is a satellite dish(LOL)
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Dormitory for Russian,Tatar soldiers:
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In the website it says monument in Gallipoli get damage in a big earthquake in 1956. There was a restoration project.
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PhilThib
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:48 am

I noticed on the original pictures (1919-1920?) the indication in French that Gallipoli is located in Greece :neener:

Of course it is not, but does this have something to do with the Greek attempts to capture the Western part of Turkey (Thrace and Asia Minor) at that time ? ;)
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Baris
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:20 am

Yes very correct.
It should about the attemps to capture.. :) I think photographs in the first post taken by a French photographer and allies of Greece. As far as I know Greece mainly involved ww1 and RCW because of the land as Gallipoli,islands in the Aegean Sea and some parts of anatolia promised by allies.

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PhilThib
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:40 am

Yes indeed, this was as per the Sykes-Picot secret agreements in 1917...before the victory of Kemal and the Treaty of Sevres (1922) fixed it back. :cool:
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Alexor
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Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:42 am

In that website there is an interesting video of an orthodox religious service in the famous Sainte-Genevieve Des Bois Russian cemetery near Paris.
You can see the grave of Kutepov at one point (his portrait in on the tomb stone). The young people in uniform around carry old flags.

Gtvasy
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Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:17 pm

France and Britain betrayed its main ally with great rascality, left them with minimal support during the Civil war, when Russian army numerously saved the Western front and Paris in 1914, by launching offensives, and after Whites' evacuation French and British disarmed them and abandoned without providing any sort of support, looking at them like on some refugees, not former alies. British especially demonstrated disgracefulness of their foreign policy when Lloyd George accepted the Soviet government in 1921.
That is a shameful page of your history.

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andatiep
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:00 pm

Gtvasy wrote:France and Britain betrayed its main ally with great rascality, left them with minimal support during the Civil war, when Russian army numerously saved the Western front and Paris in 1914, by launching offensives, and after Whites' evacuation French and British disarmed them and abandoned without providing any sort of support, looking at them like on some refugees, not former alies. British especially demonstrated disgracefulness of their foreign policy when Lloyd George accepted the Soviet government in 1921.
That is a shameful page of your history.



Well, don't mix countries/peoples and their governments.
And don't expect any governments to follow what they signed. They build alliances with Powers, not with refugies.

Many people in France at this period didn't liked such an alliance between a 'civilized' Republic and a medieval imperial state. Big parts of the French propaganda against Germany was based on critics about its autocratic, 'Barbarian' and anti-democratic imperial government. So of courses, the Alliance with Imperial Russia could only be something to not speak too much about, except about its great number of divisions which hopefully will attack Germany in the back.

The Alliance became more popular with the new Russian Republican government of Kerenski after the February Revolution.

But after the October Revolution, when Russia signed an armistice alone with Germany, you could find your same words in all British and French newspapers and Pub's discussions : "Russia betrayed its main allies with great rascality, when French and British Armies saved the Eastern Front and Petrograd in 1916, by launching Sommes Offensives,..." etc.

When you say that France and Britain left minimal support during the Russian Civil war, it is not true.
French and British governments send a huge material and financial support to the Whites as long as they could. Especially if you concider that the populations of this countries was mostly against such an involvement, that they worked hardly during years of war to produce all this guns to fight the Germans and not to provide this toys to Russians that fight other Russians when war is over, and that eventually their parliaments make stop most of this support by the end of 1919.
Keep in mind that my ancesters here never signed anything with the Tzar to ally with him, and the Tzar never asked to any of its Russian subjects to ally with France.

Of courses, it was kind of "Vae Victis" for the rest of the Russian White officers (and few soldiers) that could escape to the West. But believe me, they were far more rich that any other refugies and migrants of that time arriving in France or in New York. They where not welcomed with too much official ceremony because French and British goverment had to deal with the new Russia. But also because French population didn't saw them like the ones which saved them and win the world war.
Why should a French peasant or worker coming back from Verdun be gratefull to a Russian White and WWI veteran soldier arriving in France ? When most of the Russian WWI veteran soldiers that helped them fighting Germans in 1914 are mostly the same ones that did the Revolutions in 1917 which removed Russia from the war ?

There is more shameful pages for France and Britain than recognizing the new Red Russian government. Like when French government, supported by a big part of the French population afraid from a new war, organized the complete dissolution of an allied country, Czechoslovakia, in Muenchen, in 1938.

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PhilThib
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:36 pm

Remember the famous quote from General De Gaulle "States have no friends, they have interests!" :)
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andatiep
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 8:41 pm

PhilThib wrote:Remember the famous quote from General De Gaulle "States have no friends, they have interests!" :)


:D And what was amazing, it is that he told it to Churchill and the Brits when he was a guest of England, depending completely on them to developpe the Free French movement and troops, and to support him against Roosevelt which prefered to support other French generals. The incredible French arrogance is not a legend :mdr: .

Baris
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:42 pm

White Army was not the actual refugee. It was the Trotsky. :)

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andatiep
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Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:17 pm

Baris wrote:White Army was not the actual refugee. It was the Trotsky. :)


Victim of himself ? Could you that way apply for the refugee accreditation :confused: ?
Some believe that Stalin let him alive during all the 30's to justifie the Great purges, and then really started to hunt and kill him when finished.
If so, i think the position of Globe-trotter Tourist of extrem sports would fit better ;) .
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD

Baris
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Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:56 pm

No I agree. Todays refugee accreditation have no plan or area limitation for where they go (this is not generalized example). White army I think was more 'guest' than refugee but there are some sources in which some of them had bad life.

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