ShadowofGod
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How to go on the strategic offensive; the game as history

Sun Nov 13, 2016 5:27 pm

After playing Revolution Under Siege and being enchanted by the huge playmap and variety of units, I have to say I'm much chagrined at how little the game seems to be going for my side, the Reds, vs. history. I put together a corps of some of my best units, put it under the command of Kamenev, supported it as best I could with artillery, and sent it toward Samara and its three victory points. It won a couple of battles, but then got smacked by Kappel with over 70,000 troops, and 1700+ battle points!

I really like the Russian Civil War as a game topic. But so far the most accurate game is Ted Raicer's "Reds," even though it's not that large and has no political options. The Whites make rapid advances at the beginning, not because they're numerous but because they're well commanded and are fighting a rabble. Things stall a bit at Tsaritsyn, because it's a city, and you need almost all of Denikin's force to dislodge them. Then the Red player, if he is smart, will pile all he can to hit the less numerous Eastern Whites. At the same time, the Reds will start getting effective leaders that will allow them to stack their armies and use their numbers effectively. When the Western Allies get discouraged and stop aid to the Whites and the Czech Legion withdraws, that's when the tide dramatically turns.

Kappel did not have 70,000 troops under his command or close to that. I'm not sure the Eastern Whites ever had that many, total. Yet the game gives them such an army. I'm at Late July 1919, do the White armies ever get smaller, or am I going to keep getting faced by such legions, and I can't make progress?

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Ripster8
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Location: Tucson, AZ, USA

Re: How to go on the strategic offensive; the game as history

Sun Nov 13, 2016 11:04 pm

The White AI will defend Samara vigorously and is quite good at massing forces in this area. I have had some success as the Reds using three 1000 point corps working together to isolate the city from supply and then lay siege to it for a few turns to weaken the garrison. You may also need to employ naval forces to completely isolate the city. A solid logistics network is also important, and if you can make a simultaneous attack along the Perm - Ekateriburg axis to draw off the AI forces it also helps.

I am not very familiar with the historical force levels involved, but I do know that the Eastern Whites can grow quite strong if left alone too long. I made the mistake of leaving them in control of everything east of the Volga in my last game and they resisted fiercely when I finally got around to attacking eastwards. Good luck, comrade!

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Durk
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Re: How to go on the strategic offensive; the game as history

Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:47 am

This is a very challenging and historical game. Playing versus AI does not provide the full scope of history as playing all three factions in solitary play or pbem play.

Did you make certain all your armies and corps had sufficient political generals or commissars? This is a key to Red success.

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Nikel
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Re: How to go on the strategic offensive; the game as history

Mon Nov 14, 2016 10:44 am

Regarding the strength of White Siberians.

According to Smele, Kappel was commander of the Moscow Army Group from 4 November 1919, and then Commander in Chief of the Eastern front.

This Army group was formed of the following:

- 3rd Army, 50000 in July 1919.

- Orenburg Army, was 10000 strong in may 1919.

- Steppe Army Group, no number given for it.


So 70000 troops under Kappel in July 1919 seems historically plausible.

Baris
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Re: How to go on the strategic offensive; the game as history

Mon Nov 14, 2016 12:49 pm

Eastern Whites can form beyond +70 000 army I think in a pbem but not excessive amounts. Generally when Kazan is well defended opponent can go for Penza&Saransk route and/or Perm&Viatka. It is easier to concentrate on Western Whites with the help of anarchists but more harder for the other one. For against AI Samara and Ufa could be re-captured in later 1918.

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