elxaime
Brigadier General
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:48 am

I have a couple of questions on the White event options if the Komuch falls.

1. Can the Directory or Military Dictatorship events be played even if Omsk is in the hands of the Reds?

2. If a Military Dictatorship is established, and then Omsk falls, does the fall of Omsk cancel any ongoing effects from establishment of the Dictatorship? For example, the experience and cohesion boosts?

Thanks in advance for any answers.

User avatar
Durk
Posts: 1927
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:36 am
Location: Wyoming

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:10 am

My goodness, fascinating question about which I have absolutely no idea. I hope some other can shed light.
But now this is on my radar and I am looking.

User avatar
andatiep
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Grenoble, France.

Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:56 pm

elxaime wrote:I have a couple of questions on the White event options if the Komuch falls.

1. Can the Directory or Military Dictatorship events be played even if Omsk is in the hands of the Reds?

2. If a Military Dictatorship is established, and then Omsk falls, does the fall of Omsk cancel any ongoing effects from establishment of the Dictatorship? For example, the experience and cohesion boosts?

Thanks in advance for any answers.


Salut,

Short answers :

1. No. Omsk is the last main town to hold to make it a capital for those 2 governments. If you not have it, you probably are not a serious power but only looking like walking deads Whites hordes running the steppes.

2. Depend of what you means as ongoing effects. The units' experiences remain always and the cohesion boost not.
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD

elxaime
Brigadier General
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:05 pm

Thanks. On Number 2, to elaborate:

The Dictatorship event gives the White units one star of experience each turn for nine turns. Here is a hypothetical situation. The Dictatorship has been established for three turns, which means all White units now have three stars experience. Then Omsk falls to the Reds. According to the event description, this seems to indicate the Dictatorship also ends. While the three stars experience remains, the fall of Omsk means the Whites stop getting another star each turn (up to the limit of nine) and of course also loose the cohesion boosts. Is that correct? In other words, does the fall of Omsk stop the Whites from gaining more stars of experience each turn? Thanks.

User avatar
ERISS
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1921
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:25 am
Location: France

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:15 pm

andatiep wrote:Omsk is the last main town to hold to make it a capital for a government event, because if you do not have it then you look like hordes. Omsk fallen, you lose the boost effects of dictatorship (you lose the cohesion but you keep the already experience, of course).

Again some text to be put somewhere ingame.

User avatar
andatiep
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Grenoble, France.

Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:47 pm

elxaime wrote:Thanks. On Number 2, to elaborate:

The Dictatorship event gives the White units one star of experience each turn for nine turns. Here is a hypothetical situation. The Dictatorship has been established for three turns, which means all White units now have three stars experience. Then Omsk falls to the Reds. According to the event description, this seems to indicate the Dictatorship also ends. While the three stars experience remains, the fall of Omsk means the Whites stop getting another star each turn (up to the limit of nine) and of course also loose the cohesion boosts. Is that correct?.


Yes. It is correct.

elxaime wrote: In other words, does the fall of Omsk stop the Whites from gaining more stars of experience each turn?

Yes ...and no, they still could get some XP with the basic game system...

elxaime
Brigadier General
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Fri Dec 23, 2016 5:37 pm

Thanks for the replies. One of the reasons I'd asked was because my sense remains that the experience boosts of the White Dictatorship event need some balancing.

In a current PBEM, the Whites lost the Komuch in late 1919 and declared dictatorship. Over the course of the next nine turns, as each White combat unit on the map got a star each turn, the overall combat power balance between the two sides went from roughly 1:1 to well over 2:1 in favor of the Whites. The Reds basically forgot about going on the offensive for the rest of the game, as the White units were now demi-gods. In a typical battle pre-White dictatorship, it was not unusual for the Reds to lose twice as many troops in an otherwise equal battle. Post-White dictatorship, it is common for the Reds to lose four to five times as many men per battle, especially in restricted terrain. This is one of those times where I think a game mechanic was devised with combat versus AI in mind, namely a Red player looking for a challenge against the White AI. But for PBEM, it can really kill a game when such a one-sided boost is handed out. The negatives from declaring dictatorship are far outweighed by the positives - I've never had a white opponent hold off from declaring dictatorship when it was available.

User avatar
andatiep
Posts: 1421
Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 10:56 am
Location: Grenoble, France.

Re: Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Wed Dec 28, 2016 5:46 pm

elxaime wrote:Thanks for the replies. One of the reasons I'd asked was because my sense remains that the experience boosts of the White Dictatorship event need some balancing.

In a current PBEM, the Whites lost the Komuch in late 1919 and declared dictatorship. Over the course of the next nine turns, as each White combat unit on the map got a star each turn, the overall combat power balance between the two sides went from roughly 1:1 to well over 2:1 in favor of the Whites. The Reds basically forgot about going on the offensive for the rest of the game, as the White units were now demi-gods. In a typical battle pre-White dictatorship, it was not unusual for the Reds to lose twice as many troops in an otherwise equal battle. Post-White dictatorship, it is common for the Reds to lose four to five times as many men per battle, especially in restricted terrain. This is one of those times where I think a game mechanic was devised with combat versus AI in mind, namely a Red player looking for a challenge against the White AI. But for PBEM, it can really kill a game when such a one-sided boost is handed out. The negatives from declaring dictatorship are far outweighed by the positives - I've never had a white opponent hold off from declaring dictatorship when it was available.


You're probably right about that effect. I'm playing currently 2 PBEM games and one is starting to have this effect and i will check carefully if it happen for the second one (where i'm playing Whites in a very difficult situation now and i will be 'happy' to see this effect to save my game ;) .).
If confirmed, the PBEM Red players will have to very carefully not let the Eastern Whites hold Omsk too long after they are able to switch to a Military dictatorship (untill some new volunteers and patch show up).

That's a good reason for re-simulating the historical rush to the East offensive and crush Kolchak before facing the Western Whites :D .
REVOLUTION UNDER SIEGE GOLD

elxaime
Brigadier General
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:23 am

andatiep wrote:If confirmed, the PBEM Red players will have to very carefully not let the Eastern Whites hold Omsk too long after they are able to switch to a Military dictatorship (untill some new volunteers and patch show up).


I've thought about that, but the only way to really do that is to artificially hold off taking Samara and destroying the Komuch until the Reds are well on the way to Omsk. Once Samara (which is usually the last of the cities you need to trigger the end of the Komuch) falls, the Eastern Whites can immediately declare the dictatorship if they have the EP. The rough terrain around Ufa and Ekaterinburg, if still in Eastern White hands, is an unbreachable barrier since once those stars get added, in rough terrain the entrenched White infantry simply cannot be moved. In other words, unless the Reds use "gamey" tactics to delay the fall of the Komuch, there is no way the Reds get to Omsk.

The other issue is the nine stars get added to everyone. The Western Whites, Northern Whites, Balts, whomever is in the game for the Whites at the time, all get the boost. Not sure why an event controlled by the Eastern Whites should apply to everyone, since Admiral Kolchak was only dictator in the East.

Here are some options for a fix:

- dropping the boost from nine to three stars
- making it so the Eastern Whites can only declare the dictatorship if both Ekaterinburg and Ufa have also fallen
- restricting the nine star boost to only certain types of units or to the East faction
- having dictatorship trigger loyalty losses throughout Siberia and the Pacific areas each turn it is in effect, say a 35 percent chance each turn for each area to gain 10 percent Red loyalty. This means the improved Eastern Whites have to deal with the political consequences in their rear

User avatar
Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
Posts: 1682
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:50 pm

Re: Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:09 pm

I couldn't remember clearly but reds could be still be in concript models at later dates. Maybe they auto upgrade.

elxaime
Brigadier General
Posts: 471
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 11:57 pm

Re: Question on White Military Dictatorship Event

Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:12 pm

I have seen Red Militia auto-upgrade if they gain stars through combat. Maybe this is the code from CW2 or ACW where they can auto-upgrade if they gain stars, and this was imported into the code of RUS?

Return to “Revolution Under Siege”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest