Best scenario for balanced PBEM?

[John Sedgwick]

I seem to recall people saying that the Grand Campaign was almost impossible for a Red player to win against a competent White player(s) (which didn't stop me from getting my butt kicked my first couple tries in PBEM). Is this still the case in the Gold version? The Short Campaign ("Red Spring", May 1919) was suggested as a more balanced start for Reds and Whites - what about the in-between option, "White Autumn"? Is there any consensus on the best scenario for a balanced PBEM?

[Durk]

I have not yet had an opportunity to play all Gold scenarios versus live players, but it seem the Grand Campaign is very balanced. All factions have challenges, but if the Red player can organize his units with political leaders and semi-competent commanders, the Reds will do just fine. Gold is not a brand new game, but it has so many refinements, options and processes, that it requires new learning. One thing I love, but have not yet fully processed, some of the factions not included in the original game are present and the game is much more dynamic.
So for now, Grand Campaign looks like a nice three player game.

[Baris]

Grand campaign with early start is great fun to play and has a bit more possibilities mainly about capturing gold train. When asked to players playing each function they probably reply they have restriction and won’t be able to win game. That is particularly true for Western Whites that in both Ukraine and Northern theater they could get overwhelmed or could not advance further. Less true for Eastern Whites as they are not much under pressure from Red army, more free to build, maneuver& capturing territories and could get great VP advantage in long term. In terms of VP Reds has no possibility to win if not capturing locations when game gets longer. Troop quality and bad leaders could handicap offensives even when in better shape in numbers versus Whites.

[ERISS]

Western Whites in both Ukraine and Northern theater could get overwhelmed or could not advance further.
Eastern Whites are not much under pressure from Red army, more free to build, maneuver& capturing territories and could get great VP advantage in long term.
In terms of VP Reds has no possibility to win if not capturing locations when game gets longer. Troop quality and bad leaders could handicap offensives even when in better shape in numbers versus Whites.

So it's balanced to the Red play historically, he has to invade the East and so retreat from the South. Then the newb' Southwhite player think he can hold Ukraine and invade South Russia, but when the Red comes back from the East to counter the South, the Southwhite must leave great parts of Ukraine (or holding it the whole too lightly..) to instead support on the Russia front.

[John Sedgwick]

Cool, thanks for the replies, guys! It sounds like most people play the GC, so I guess I'll practice for that.

Playing the Western Whites does get a bit claustrophobic when a Red player focuses on them early, so I suppose I shouldn't feel so bad for doing poorly with them my first couple tries against a human. As ERISS said, it could cost the Reds in the long run if they don't push back the Eastern threat...

[elxaime]

I have not yet had an opportunity to play all Gold scenarios versus live players, but it seem the Grand Campaign is very balanced. All factions have challenges, but if the Red player can organize his units with political leaders and semi-competent commanders, the Reds will do just fine. Gold is not a brand new game, but it has so many refinements, options and processes, that it requires new learning. One thing I love, but have not yet fully processed, some of the factions not included in the original game are present and the game is much more dynamic.
So for now, Grand Campaign looks like a nice three player game.

The only thing about playing Grand Campaign is that you need to have played it several times through to understand the major impact of scripted events for which there is little information.

[Baris]

PDF document is good but I admit I was surprised when Petrovsk port in Terek lost to Whites by event. Or forget about that one.

[ERISS]

Maybe those events should have a slight chance of failure,
depending on the strenght of the force you have here..

[andatiep]

The only thing about playing Grand Campaign is that you need to have played it several times through to understand the major impact of scripted events for which there is little information.

RUS GOLD is the first and the only Ageod game which provide ALL the events and global options which allow you to understand the major impact of the scripted events in PDF files in the Docs repository of the game. So i desagree with your terms of "for which there is little information" .

[elxaime]

Has anyone actually finished a PBEM under the Gold version? All the AAR are of the vanilla version.

[Durk]

Yes, have done a couple. Lots of new challenges, pretty fun. No idea about the answer to this thread's title, all is a challenge, but lots of new learning which is fun.

[Anomander Rake]

In my opinion REDS have a good chance in the Great Campaign. I haven't played yet Whites by pbem but REDS aren't absolutely weaker faction in my opinion.
They have a lot of gold and troops.

[Baris]

Reds definetely not weaker but not the strongest on offense. Could have too much ambitions and options (such as declare war on Romania etc..) just time is not enough and maybe manpower to fullfill objectives.
Still, it is balanced scenario for PBEM.

[John Sedgwick]

I still can't pull off a viable Eastern White strategy (possibly because I'm playing against myself) - it seems close cooperation between Eastern and Western White factions is the key to victory, which makes sense.

Do most people play with activation off, as the manual recommends? I always played with a medium penalty on, thinking it was the default...

[ERISS]

I still can't pull off a viable Eastern White strategy - it seems close cooperation between Eastern and Western White factions is the key to victory.

How I see this:
I think the East player must have a defensive strategy: He must grab Strategic Towns at the start of the game then defend them for at least half the game. As he can 'easily' win to the Victory Points, he must entrench and compel the red to attack (what he is bad to). So, to spare the more his army, the eastern must refrain from attacking unnecessary red regions (which even should be some red trap, where you'll be victorious pyrrhus way..).
The eastern player may try the Strategical Towns victory by a late counter attack once he succeeded in stoping the Red.
If not, he should not be able to enter Moscow, as the Eastern Whites should be the 1st target of the Red player until eastern no longer a serious threat (however some red player may risky gamble the reverse: activate the makhnovists to help to try to neutralize swiftly the Western Whites firstly).

Do most people play with activation off, as the manual recommends? I always played with a medium penalty on, thinking it was the default...

I guess most people try to play as intended. And at first I was like you, I believed the good way was the hybrid.

[John Sedgwick]

Thanks, ERISS; I am coming around to similar conclusions. Eastern Whites have less offensive oomph than Western but more staying power in the long run, so should favour the defense, while the Western Whites have a lot more punch early on. But my idea of winning is taking Moscow (and not recognizing independences), so a victory on points by other means would feel hollow. I love the idea of a Polish victory though!

[elxaime]

RUS GOLD is the first and the only Ageod game which provide ALL the events and global options which allow you to understand the major impact of the scripted events in PDF files in the Docs repository of the game. So i desagree with your terms of "for which there is little information" .

I don't mean to sound critical. I just mean that the details matter. When for example the Reds pick the World Revolution in the Caucasus event and it says there will be an uprising in Baku, until you have played the event once you don't really know what that means in terms of forces, etc. Having done it once, I now know it means Red rebels entrenched to level 8 but besieged inside the port city. Knowing that now, the next time I play the event I will be ready to rush a convoy with reinforcements right away. Same for some other events - there is a broad description that something will happen, but in game terms the details become clear only once you see the actual forces.

[ERISS]

RUS database is at least 2 years old.., sure not the last version of Gold...