AGEOD Forums

Greens own Petrograd and other heart of Red country cities.

With only one round of requisitions Petrograd has 1% Red and 99% Green control/loyalty. Other cities in the Red Zones have similar problems. Some at 100% Green other have a bit of Red. This seems to only impact cities.

Not sure what is happening. Running 1.06 Public Beta RC1 in PBEM.

Firstly, Grrens have Loyalty there, but RED still has MC.
Best garrison strongly in cast of a Revolt!

Before I dig into your situation:

By "a round of requistions" do you mean a series of Requistion-Conscription RGD's? Did you play any Concession or Tchecka to regain lost loyalty?

"Serial Oppression" is a common way to drive loyalty away from your side. Requisition and Conscription are not "routine collection" but rather best thought of as "press gangs and forceful collection of material". They both cost you Loyalty [among other things], in varying amounts. Loyalty shifts to some faction other than yours... in this case Greens.

The new loyalty from these are determined by Pocusnian Logic, that only the Master can detail, but rest assured, I've seen similar shifts away from Southern Whites in Ekaterinodar...

lodilefty wrote:Firstly, Grrens have Loyalty there, but RED still has MC.
Best garrison strongly in cast of a Revolt!

Before I dig into your situation:

By "a round of requistions" do you mean a series of Requistion-Conscription RGD's? Did you play any Concession or Tchecka to regain lost loyalty?

"Serial Oppression" is a common way to drive loyalty away from your side. Requisition and Conscription are not "routine collection" but rather best thought of as "press gangs and forceful collection of material". They both cost you Loyalty [among other things], in varying amounts. Loyalty shifts to some faction other than yours... in this case Greens.

The new loyalty from these are determined by Pocusnian Logic, that only the Master can detail, but rest assured, I've seen similar shifts away from Southern Whites in Ekaterinodar...

I am actually playing as the Reds in this campaign. I only requisitioned once from there and other cities. Conscription seems to do this too. This is certainly a beta problem, as I haven't seen this happen before. I haven't had the chance to use Cheka yet but this is a crippling problem as it affects the recruitment of new units, especially the political comissars.

Per the DB [unchanged from before] you'll lose 35-40 Loyalty each time you play Requisitions or Conscription.

It's likely that it behaves differently, as Loyalty changes were bugged before...
AFAIK this is now WAD....
...no more indiscriminant Conscription and Requisitions...

How is it a problem if both sides see the same effect???

lodilefty wrote:Per the DB [unchanged from before] you'll lose 35-40 Loyalty each time you play Requisitions or Conscription.

It's likely that it behaves differently, as Loyalty changes were bugged before...
AFAIK this is now WAD....
...no more indiscriminant Conscription and Requisitions...

How is it a problem if both sides see the same effect???

But this doesn't happen in another PBEM which is 1.05a with the Siberian whites, or probably any faction. As I said, I've never seen behavior like this. Not with the Reds, not with anyone, so are you saying that in every version before this one the loyalty changes were not WAD?

Searry wrote:But this doesn't happen in another PBEM which is 1.05a with the Siberian whites, or probably any faction. As I said, I've never seen behavior like this. Not with the Reds, not with anyone, so are you saying that in every version before this one the loyalty changes were not WAD?

Yes, that is my understanding...

I do not think it is a problem if both sides have the same effects, which they do. It will require an adjustment in play for those of us used to punishing all far and near to gain conscripts and money. I actually like the harsher penalties as this will push down army size to a much more historical level.
Thanks for your time and your thoughts.

I do not think it is a problem if both sides have the same effects, which they do. I actually like the harsher penalties as this will push down army size to a much more historical level.
It will require an adjustment in play for those of us used to punishing all far and near to gain conscripts and money.
Thanks for your time and your thoughts.

Let me clarify a point raised at another website:

Green Loyalty in Petrograd is WAD in that the Regional Decisions result in Loyalty shifts away from the controlling faction.

While the shift to Greens may not be Historical [I am, after all, not a Russian historian], the Greens are defined in the setup as the primary non-RED faction. Thus the shift goes to them...


If not Green, then Who?

Here's a question: How do I increrase loyalty, except by doing the rather expensive Cheka-regional decision ?

le Anders wrote:Here's a question: How do I increrase loyalty, except by doing the rather expensive Cheka-regional decision ?

Best way: A force with a high total of Police values will move loyalty to you.
There are leaders with Loyalty-related abilities also..

.but some abilities may actually reduce your loyalty!!

lodilefty wrote:Green Loyalty in Petrograd is WAD in that the Regional Decisions result in Loyalty shifts away from the controlling faction.
While the shift to Greens may not be Historical [I am, after all, not a Russian historian], the Greens are defined in the setup as the primary non-RED faction. Thus the shift goes to them...
If not Green, then Who?

Like in the last patch, where big cities turn Anarchist instead of turning Green.
There were many anarchist clubs in towns, that bolsheviks destroyed, but while read ana propaganda was slowed down, oral one could continue, and could be difficult to be spotted, as bolsheviks had copied it to seem radical and rob their benefits (soviets let being united in a parliament by bolsheviks who suddenly talked like anarchists and seemed love the soviets they at least distrust before: so, soviets no longer decide, but their 'representatives' in the bolshevik controled parliament, like in the bourgeois parliament bolsheviks dreamed in vain being elected before spitting on like the anarchists)
In countryside, Left-SR (more both intellectuals and violent than the anarchists) often could help provoking Green uprising, but didn't succeeded in controling them (Right-SR, the main SR party, didn't want to help mujiks bolsheviks, but their Komuch wanted them in their own army against bolsheviks..).
Makhno (who already had practiced at home, learnt anarchist theories in a small jail 'club') succeeded, as he was firstly mujik, in somewhat controling what could have been just-Green if leaded by the common antisemits (I don't say Makhno was one).
When Kropotkin died in 1921 anarchists were shot by the bolsheviks since 2 years, but thousands people who all could be at least arrested the next day (Lenin agreed the processions* day, not anarchy), demonstrated in towns, many with black flags and anti-bolshevik slogans.
(* for genius Lenin had said Kropotkin was his friend: Lenin had tried to continue the rob of anarchist propaganda by letting Kropotkin alone write under the control of bolshevik printing house -Kropotkin had rejected the offer).