AGEOD Forums

Posted: **Sun May 15, 2011 6:51 pm**

Below are some character and unit special abilities that have no real explanation in the manual ie Brutal Occupier: This unit's brutality angers civilian populations. What are we meant to understand by this? What are the actual effects?

1.Politically connected

2.Brutal occupier (militia units)

3.Pilot

4.Unforgiving

5.Double-faced

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2011 3:36 am**

The table beginning on page 111 of the manual is helpful to me in understanding these qualities.While these five qualities are a bit vague on the table about the specific effects, quantitatively, some idea can be discerned from other game happenings. This is my take.

1.Politically connected leaders have a larger than normal consequence from promoting others over them. You will see this when the option to promote another is available. Like higher victory point loss.

2.Brutal occupier (militia units) Basically, these units pillage the areas with and enemy control

3.Pilot ability actuality makes the air unit commanded by this officer better at both offensive and defensive tactics. Because the officer associate with this ability is also a good ground commander, the trade-off is to usually keep him with ground unit.

4.Unforgiving leader is very similar to brutal occupier. Likelihood of pillage is certain.

5.Double-faced this is literally what the rule says. Janin, if left in control too long, undermines Kolchak. Have to see to believe, but this happens. Kolchak is personally weakened.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2011 7:50 am**

Durk wrote:2.Brutal occupier (militia units) Basically, these units pillage the areas with and enemy control

4.Unforgiving leader is very similar to brutal occupier. Likelihood of pillage is certain.

As pogroms are taboo in this game, they had to put other names.
Brutal occupiers stand for 'usual' antisemit people, and Unforgiving stands for political antisemit (taboo even todays not ingame!, almost all White leaders should have it).
Few could have these abilities and not being antisemit.

Posted: **Mon May 16, 2011 10:09 am**

Durk wrote:
2.Brutal occupier (militia units) Basically, these units pillage the areas with and enemy control

4.Unforgiving leader is very similar to brutal occupier. Likelihood of pillage is certain.

Does that mean these abilites only go into effect when entering enemy areas? Because my initial worry was that if I left them in my cities they would lower loyalty levels in friendly areas.

Durk wrote:Because the officer associate with this ability is also a good ground commander, the trade-off is to usually keep him with ground unit.

That's exactly what I thought, in that case the ability is a bit pointless no?

Durk wrote:5.Double-faced this is literally what the rule says. Janin, if left in control too long, undermines Kolchak. Have to see to believe, but this happens. Kolchak is personally weakened.

In Kolchak's campaign (1.02b) I noticed that Janin can't be made into an army commander despite his high rank, however there is an option to disband him, would this be a good idea in order to avoid the undermine Kolchak event?

One last question, on the character abilites I often see level 1 next to the ability, does this mean the abilities improve with time/experience?

Really, for a game this complex the manual is inadequate.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2011 3:20 am**

Lusatian wrote:Does that mean these abilites only go into effect when entering enemy areas? Because my initial worry was that if I left them in my cities they would lower loyalty levels in friendly areas.

The abilities only go into effect when entering enemy areas. However, enemy areas are not areas previously held by enemy forces, they are ares with over 51% enemy control. So safe in your areas, totally.

That's exactly what I thought, in that case the ability is a bit pointless no?

I do not think it is pointless. When the Soviets do not need ever ground commander available, placing him in charge of an air unit increases the dog-fighting ability of the air unit. It also increases the success of other missions. Harder to quantify than dog-fights.

In Kolchak's campaign (1.02b) I noticed that Janin can't be made into an army commander despite his high rank, however there is an option to disband him, would this be a good idea in order to avoid the undermine Kolchak event?

It may be you are trying to put Janin in charge of an army when he is not active. If a leader has a brown envelop indicating no offensive actions, they cannot take a leadership change. Janin is a good leader, so use him. I keep Kolchak back of the Urals, so not conflict.

One last question, on the character abilites I often see level 1 next to the ability, does this mean the abilities improve with time/experience?

For the most part, leader abilities do not change.

However, level one offensive and defensive levels for some leaders improves if they win battles. As do other levels.
Mostly, leaders gain rank, not levels.

Really, for a game this complex the manual is inadequate.

I am not sure I agree. The game is complex, but you learn through play. For example, intervention and events are not in the manual, but with play, you learn to anticipate their possibility.

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2011 10:15 am**

I think an indication of how poor the manual and tutorial are is visible in these forums. Most people are just trying to figure out how parts of the game actually work instead of matters of tactics. The amount of bugs is appalling and what angers me the most is that RUS has touched a great subject and is beautifully made, however every time I try a game it's as though I'm playing something that was left unfinished. All i can do is try posting some of the bugs but have not had any real reply yet from the designers as to whether they will look into them.

ie raise partisans or conscript ability - has anyone actually seen any effect from this ability?

Posted: **Sat May 21, 2011 10:53 am**

Lusatian wrote:I think an indication of how poor the manual and tutorial are is visible in these forums. Most people are just trying to figure out how parts of the game actually work instead of matters of tactics. The amount of bugs is appalling and what angers me the most is that RUS has touched a great subject and is beautifully made, however every time I try a game it's as though I'm playing something that was left unfinished. All i can do is try posting some of the bugs but have not had any real reply yet from the designers as to whether they will look into them.

ie raise partisans or conscript ability - has anyone actually seen any effect from this ability?

Besides your complaints I can state that the "recruiting_officer" ability is functioning. To check that special ability I suggest you give any general in the mdl-files this ability and then check one of the greater cities (lvl 5+) how the conscript pool is figured there and then you should send this general inside and take a new look for the conscript data one turn later and you will see any changes...

The "Patriot" ability you state here as raise partisan one is more or less somehow random-generating additional partisan or volunteer units in most other AGEOD games like WIA or AACW but in RUS I should take a deeper insight look on that.

Most of the abilities seems to be connected with some event-triggers thus you cannot always state it would functioning the old way as I assume...

greetings

Hohenlohe aka Mike

edit: even Lenins' Propagandist ability seems to function somehow. Just try to use in the Special operations map some possible operational modus which uses loyality and then take in the subsequent turns a look on the loyality in the Moscow area if there are any positive changes...

Posted: **Sun May 22, 2011 5:17 am**

Lusatian wrote:I think an indication of how poor the manual and tutorial are is visible in these forums. Most people are just trying to figure out how parts of the game actually work instead of matters of tactics. The amount of bugs is appalling and what angers me the most is that RUS has touched a great subject and is beautifully made, however every time I try a game it's as though I'm playing something that was left unfinished. All i can do is try posting some of the bugs but have not had any real reply yet from the designers as to whether they will look into them.

ie raise partisans or conscript ability - has anyone actually seen any effect from this ability?

Lusatian,
I think you are being too hard on a game which actually functions much better than your experience indicates. I have not seen the bug posts you indicate. My take is the forum is a place where other players take time to show you the gaps in your experience with the game.
Yes, I have seen effects from these abilities. It takes time, some events, and the correct situation.
RUS actually works so much better than most games. For its subject, it is the best game on the market.

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2011 4:11 pm**

Hohenlohe wrote:Most of the abilities seems to be connected with some event-triggers thus you cannot always state it would functioning the old way as I assume...

In that case it is misleading to have it as an ability and should be removed, I spent a lot of time keeping the 'Patriot' general in areas to raise partisans and nothing happened, again this sort of thing should be clearly explained in the manual.

Hohenlohe wrote:even Lenins' Propagandist ability seems to function somehow. Just try to use in the Special operations map some possible operational modus which uses loyality and then take in the subsequent turns a look on the loyality in the Moscow area if there are any positive changes...

In 1.02b I would like to see this but Lenin has a '?' ability which I think is yet another bug.

Durk wrote:For its subject, it is the best game on the market

I agree with you, but the game is simply unpolished. If you look as some of the error postings you will see a lot of crashes, buttons which don't work (tent in particular), error messages and script errors from players. Many of these issues have had no reply from the developers so who knows if they will be fixed, this is patch 1.02b so many of these basic problems should have been fixed already.

PS By the way does anyone have an opinion on what the fatal years mod is like?

Posted: **Tue May 24, 2011 10:50 pm**

Lusatian wrote:In that case it is misleading to have it as an ability and should be removed, I spent a lot of time keeping the 'Patriot' general in areas to raise partisans and nothing happened,

Recruiting officer need level 5 cities to muster new concripts but both whites at most have level 3 cities. I didnt see any difference in concript increase but I can be wrong. Balts have some patriotic generals but I didnt observe partisans raised for national duty.

Lusatian wrote:PS By the way does anyone have an opinion on what the fatal years mod is like?

It is a comprehensive mod by Clovis that changes the economy of the game by limiting regional policies for all factions by desicions and changing the rules for whites to get alliances and many more AI behavior change. Compatible with the previous patch I guess.

Note: Does the Depots distribute ,receive supply correctly in the last patch? Sieging, capturing Moscow is more difficult for siberians from that. I wasnt sure as some depots built on empty terrain can receive supply but not the ones built on some captured cities.

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2011 5:20 pm**

As an idea not very sure about if it is already implemented:

As the cossack troops have severe(Not as much as anarchists, or French/Greek troops) penalty about discipline and cohesion for out of region operations I thought it would be good idea to implement "Cossack commander" special ability to prevent this out of region penalty only as a division level. Also as there is plenty of command points generated by leaders(compared with ACW) I think special abilities such as "signal" can increase the area of effect of Army commanders bonus passed to corps commander.

Not much related to this topic but when I was sieging Minsk I had a tooltip about %90 supply decay in German forces. Minsk was a civilized region but 9000 pw Germans were sieging 3000 power Red force. In the next turn I think Germans didnt lose %90 of the supply if I correctly understand the rule. Though I have to check it again.

Posted: **Tue May 31, 2011 7:53 pm**

Lusatian wrote:
PS By the way does anyone have an opinion on what the fatal years mod is like?

New version in a few days...

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 5:50 pm**

Baris wrote:I wasnt sure as some depots built on empty terrain can receive supply but not the ones built on some captured cities.

I know in some cases I had to build 3 depots in one town to get the supply/ammo to levels that a depot in empty terrain had. In some cases towns with supply depots had merely one supply crate so I don't know what is going on with supply rules in 1.02b.

Athens wrote:New version in a few days...

That's good to hear. I've tried being patient in waiting for the new official patch but it seems never ending (patch release dates are delayed month to month to month). I've read up a bit about Fatal Years mod and I like the way you have added more political options as well as the fact that you are efficient in correcting errors. What official patch would the new Fatal Years mod be compatable with?

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:12 pm**

Lusatian wrote:
That's good to hear. I've tried being patient in waiting for the new official patch but it seems never ending (patch release dates are delayed month to month to month). I've read up a bit about Fatal Years mod and I like the way you have added more political options as well as the fact that you are efficient in correcting errors. What official patch would the new Fatal Years mod be compatable with?

Thanks. AI is much better too ( having designed both official and mine, I could explain why during hours. Let's say simply since the 1.1 patch, AI events haven't been updated in the official version in spite of many changes in the rules, especially for Regional Policies, and so the AI is weaker than in the first official release, whatever progress have been made in the "hard AI" in the exe program.).

The next version of FY is compatible with the 1.02b patch, without having the most part of the bugs introduced by the 1.02b ( to the exception of the bugs in the exe, like supply display glitches on railroad regions). One feature of 1.02b is lacking: Siberian player getting control over Poles during game. I plan to implement it, as the idea sounds pretty good but I prefer to wait the next official version to put some test on that, as it's a very tricky thing to do and the evnts in the 1.02b aren't maybe finalized. If they are, I've had when reading the events some suspicions about what could be possible bugs ( I could be wrong as I've yet to try this). So I've decided to postpone this change....

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:57 pm**

Any way not too artificial to be able to play until Polish intervention, and then have a FOURTH player hop in ?

Posted: **Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:04 pm**

Narwhal wrote:Any way not too artificial to be able to play until Polish intervention, and then have a FOURTH player hop in ?

It just suffice to transform Poland as playable Faction in the scenario file. So during game, it would be as simple to chage side and take Poland in charge. But Siberian AI would be uncomplete, as AI needs some events which fire on the first turn, only when the faction is played by AI.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:45 pm**

Thanks for the reply Athens. I think once you get the patch done I'll start playing your mod exclusively. I'm surprised that a game with such a great subject, artwork and historical research can be handicapped by lack of real effort in post sale service, most patches replace one problem with another, or do not address a problem at all! Also there is barely any communication with the developers, my questions rarely get a proper response from the RuS team and I have to basically try to figure things out from member opinions. I now understand what your location status means: walking through a dying forum...

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:25 pm**

Starting from 1920 Poland have high probability to be in the conflict. In one of my games as Reds, they join the war when southern whites had 60 NM as well as I had same national morale. But the tooltip were erroneous so Im not sure they really declared war from low NM of whites. The reason my games were longer generally isi capturing objective cities giving less NM harm to other side. Basicly if whites capture Both Moscow and Petrograd it is not NM victory. They fall to 20NM and pretty much can continue to fight and win battles. It is a good move I think.
Some depots are indeed not forwarding supply. Especially the ones in Don and Kazan region. The supply in the tooltip is their own production of supply and which is very low of course. It is very difficult to maintain operation to Moscow from Kazan.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:11 pm**

Lusatian wrote:Thanks for the reply Athens. I think once you get the patch done I'll start playing your mod exclusively. I'm surprised that a game with such a great subject, artwork and historical research can be handicapped by lack of real effort in post sale service, most patches replace one problem with another, or do not address a problem at all! Also there is barely any communication with the developers, my questions rarely get a proper response from the RuS team and I have to basically try to figure things out from member opinions. I now understand what your location status means: walking through a dying forum...

Don't expect miracles too: there will remain bugs in my mod, certainly, as I've first maybe forgotten some of the official version, then there are mine too. Last, I've no influence on the exe itself, and what Baris is saying about depots could possibly be a new bug introduced by the last exe version, and we have to investigate this ( anyway, as a side note, the supply system in RUS is too easy , and in some way this possible bug is strangely closer to reality...).

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:41 pm**

I should post another save about depot built in cities not getting/ forwarding supply,just to make sure

. Interesting part is it isnt a problem mostly. Only in some regions. Depot near Kazan receives 1000 supply but doesnt send supply to level1 depot level 3 city, 2 region away.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:43 pm**

Baris wrote:I should post another save about depot built in cities not getting/ forwarding supply,just to make sure . Interesting part is it isnt a problem mostly. Only in some regions.

By looking further, i'm under impression it's tied to the depot size: Kazan, Tzaritsyn, Ekaterinodar are level 1 depots....So they should request less... I'm going by any way to raise the depot level size in these cities.

Posted: **Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:03 pm**

Athens wrote:By looking further, i'm under impression it's tied to the depot size: Kazan, Tzaritsyn, Ekaterinodar are level 1 depots....So they should request less... I'm going by any way to raise the depot level size in these cities.

The other cities are fine about supply frowarding/receiving. Kazan has level 2 depot .But in this save file Kozlovka depot :2 regions away from Kazan got the supply but can not forward to captured Cheboksary(which has level 3 depot). Also railpool is sufficient large. AFAIK level 1 depot can send nearly 1000 supply. I have another save but not depot built in Kozlovka. I attached before.

Posted: **Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:44 pm**

Athens wrote:Don't expect miracles too: there will remain bugs in my mod, certainly

Hahaha! I understand that but at least I know you have less bugs than the official patches and address problems sooner.

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Special ability meaning

Special ability meaning