Husky
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Regional penalized units

Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:05 am

No more units for Siberian Whites that can fight Ural, Volga, Central Russia and other regions without been heavily penalized? :( After first RUS patch only cavalry and infantry conscripts don't have "regional" ability, that prevent them to fight outside there regions. And I cant combine this infantry to one division or corp with any artillery battery or armor car - this ability applies to all elements of the unit.
Even Komuch artillery can fight well only at Siberia theater.

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Clovis
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:17 am

Husky wrote:No more units for Siberian Whites that can fight Ural, Volga, Central Russia and other regions without been heavily penalized? :( After first RUS patch only cavalry and infantry conscripts don't have "regional" ability, that prevent them to fight outside there regions. And I cant combine this infantry to one division or corp with any artillery battery or armor car - this ability applies to all elements of the unit.
Even Komuch artillery can fight well only at Siberia theater.


We will look for that indeed. Thanks
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Clovis
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:28 am

I've looked at the files; i'm not in charge with OOB stuff so I may jsut say it's WAD, and not a bug. Now, of course, You may discuss reasons of this change but i will be unable to explain you why it has been made :)
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Husky
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:31 am

This "regional" ability not visible on unit counter or detail panel if unit was constructed before patch. But ability marker is visible when holding mouse over a Division unit counter.

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Clovis
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:37 am

Husky wrote:This "regional" ability not visible on unit counter or detail panel if unit was constructed before patch. But ability marker is visible when holding mouse over a Division unit counter.


Normal: this value is applied at the creation, not dynamically like a new version of the game. If you start a new game, all will have the same regional trait.
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Husky
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:43 am

Clovis wrote:I've looked at the files; i'm not in charge with OOB stuff so I may jut say it's WAD, and not a bug. Now, of course, You may discuss reasons of this change but i will be unable to explain you why it has been made :)


Thank you.
Its very disappointed. Kolchak army had lots of regular units, not only local motivated cossacks and rebels. This is particularly true in case of such units as artillery, armor or planes.

Husky
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:47 am

Clovis wrote:Normal: this value is applied at the creation, not dynamically like a new version of the game. If you start a new game, all will have the same regional trait.

Not sure. When you holding mouse over a Division unit counter you can see that all previously created support units also have this regional trait.

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Clovis
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:51 am

Husky wrote:Not sure. When you holding mouse over a Division unit counter you can see that all previously created support units also have this regional trait.



Some traits are displayed even when only some elements of a division have it.
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Husky
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:01 am

Clovis wrote:Some traits are displayed even when only some elements of a division have it.

No, other regular infantry elements of a division don't have this trait, only artillery and other units (cars, light infantry) that became "regional" after patch.

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caranorn
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 9:58 am

Husky wrote:No, other regular infantry elements of a division don't have this trait, only artillery and other units (cars, light infantry) that became "regional" after patch.


Aren't those exactly the units that used to be southern whites before the patch and were turned siberian white now?

P.S.: Haven't played the patched game yet...
Marc aka Caran...

Husky
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:06 pm

Yes same units. Regional trait was applied dynamically with a new version of the game.

Rasputin's Own Bear
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:31 pm

That's strange. Siberian Whites were never regional, like cossacks or ukranians, and Kolchak's official aim was always Moscow.

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poweraxe
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Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:38 pm

It seems really strange to me that units like Komush artillery have the siberian trait and can only be built there while other komush troops can only be built in the ural and volga regions(where they normally come from). Is this really WAD?

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poweraxe
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:37 pm

After playing a bit, I found that all newly created artillery for the Siberian whites have the Siberian trait, while the same is not true for the artillery already on the map at game start(they seem have the Siberian trait too, but the trait disappears when you remove them from their starting divisions) That means that almost all artillery units for the Siberian whites are penalized outside the Siberian theather, except the ones on the map at game start. Surely that can't be right :confused:

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Cat Lord
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:55 pm

poweraxe wrote:After playing a bit, I found that all newly created artillery for the Siberian whites have the Siberian trait, while the same is not true for the artillery already on the map at game start(they seem have the Siberian trait too, but the trait disappears when you remove them from their starting divisions) That means that almost all artillery units for the Siberian whites are penalized outside the Siberian theather, except the ones on the map at game start. Surely that can't be right :confused:
Hmmm, no that must be a problem with the models, which is strange because it means there are two different ones, which means in our aim of simplifying our lives we have complicated it, somehow. :bonk:

Cat
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Alexor
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:29 pm

poweraxe wrote:After playing a bit, I found that all newly created artillery for the Siberian whites have the Siberian trait, while the same is not true for the artillery already on the map at game start(they seem have the Siberian trait too, but the trait disappears when you remove them from their starting divisions) That means that almost all artillery units for the Siberian whites are penalized outside the Siberian theather, except the ones on the map at game start. Surely that can't be right :confused:


Ya it's a huge handicap for the Siberian White since any artillery build with that trait will pass it to the whole unit it is attached to. So any non-regional division will become "handicaped" if you use any artillery in the game... :(
Not really playable for the White player.

I also attached a pic of a 1st turn Rgt (not built by me) which shows some Siberian markers even though it's not Siberian (like that Polish Legion or any regiment of that division)
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Siberian1.JPG

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poweraxe
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Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:35 pm

Cat Lord wrote:Hmmm, no that must be a problem with the models, which is strange because it means there are two different ones, which means in our aim of simplifying our lives we have complicated it, somehow. :bonk:

Cat

Yep, the artillery units on the map at game start are WHI models(without the Siberian trait) while all newly built ones are WH3 models, which all have the Siberian trait.

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Clovis
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:25 am

That will be fixed in the next patch. :)
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poweraxe
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:26 pm

Ok, great! Thanks. :)

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Alexor
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:02 pm

After testing some divisions (Kappel and Makhin) with and without the Siberian marked artillery I noticed that the other units kept the same stats anyway, it seems it makes no difference anyway...so no big deal after all

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poweraxe
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 6:22 pm

Alexor wrote:After testing some divisions (Kappel and Makhin) with and without the Siberian marked artillery I noticed that the other units kept the same stats anyway, it seems it makes no difference anyway...so no big deal after all

Sure, but the artillery btns themselves are still weakened, right? So while it may not affect the division as a whole, it still makes those (newly-built) artillery units much less useful for the White player.

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Alexor
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Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:27 pm

Actually now that you're saying that I just checked in my game and the same 105 mm art sitting in Omsk (Siberia) and Kazan (Volga) has the exact same stats, only difference in 1 less point in discipline for the one in Kazan.

Not that bad. (it might even be only because the one outside Siberia has 5/8 guns left compared to the one in Omsk 100% complete, I don't know)

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