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Rafiki
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Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:37 pm

[color="Blue"]I'm leaving it to Cat Lord to decide what should be stickied (or not), since it's "his" forum :) [/color]
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ERISS
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Sun Nov 28, 2010 10:46 pm

wosung wrote:Tying Trotsky to his train makes the most useful Red leader extremely vulnerable that he probably is better used only in the rear,

That's good for me: I always believed he was not a frontline general (I may be wrong as I don't know).

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Kev_uk
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Sun Nov 28, 2010 11:20 pm

ERISS wrote:That's good for me: I always believed he was not a frontline general (I may be wrong as I don't know).


I think it was his polemic and speeches that made him an inspiring commander. Not sure on his military abilities, although the wikipedia article is informative.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trotsky

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Cat Lord
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Mon Nov 29, 2010 12:18 am

wosung wrote:The Reds have two (ex-zarist) leaders with the training bonus (symbolized by the "rabbit-like" yellow symbol)
I think it's a medal ! :D

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Sean E
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How about Red Strategy in Grand Campaign?

Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:59 am

Any ideas for the Red side?
I find lack of money being a big problem for them.
Obvious answer I guess is don’t buy any new troops for the first year or so.

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Cat Lord
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Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:17 am

The exact same thread was a bit further down the page => merge. :)

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Sean E
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Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:37 am

Yes....for some reason didn't see that. :bonk:

Andriko
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Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:09 am

wosung wrote:Red Inf Rgt:
building costs: 8 money, 10 conscripts, 30 days
strength: 20, cohesion: 50
1 regular Inf replacement element: 9 money, 10 conscripts.

Red Guard Mil:
building costs: 2 money, 14 conscripts, 20 days
strength: 12, cohesion: 40
1 Mil replacement element: 1 money, 7 conscripts.

Thus, Mil gives you more bang for the buck. And they can be trained to regular status by training officers (I could be wrong with this).
Now whether some more Mil could resist the Whites remains open. But maybe one first should train them (?!) and send them against Greens and Ukrainians.

Regards


This sounds like a pretty good description of how an army would be formed and turned into a trained fighting force - think of the British Conscripts of 1916 becoming a highly trained and effective military force by 1918.

wosung
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 5:57 pm

Some second thoughts about the Red grand campaign:
(now playing with Clovis great “milk and honey” tool, pimping rubel income)

Kuban:
First thing to decide is defending it or evacuating it. The former may distract the rather strong Southern White forces from going for Tsarytsin, and later on towards Moscow and the Ukraine. But it also puts your own forces down there at risk. (And those three columns down there are your biggest force concentration at start). They are untrained, deployed into three columns apart. They aren’t organized and fighting with a high org. malus. And they are locked at start. So they can’ move at the first turn. Only thing you you can do is changing your rules of engagement (aggressiveness, etc.).Thus you might loose two out of three battles. Strategically the sandwiched front line there gives the White forces at the Don the advantage of an interior line of defense. Yours roughly are divided between Kuban, Tsaritsyn, Kazan and Moskow. Kuban outpost is not easily reinforced. But in the coming winter it’s easy to starve. Personally I’m more eager to hold Tsaritsyn than Kuban.

So IF you would like to play it cautious. You’d better try to evacuate Kuban forces. Thus it might be an idea, to set the two columns further in the East on a passive standing on turn one. And hope for the best. In turn two they are unlocked. Now you can order them North to Tsaritsyn. For such a move, you could divide them into small 4 unit columns to support the passive standing. The one thing you really should do is to reorganize them: Seperate the partisans (especial those foot units) immediately. They are VERY slow (this might be changed in patch one). Make the MIL also an seperate column. They appear to be slower than the regular troops. Send Mil. and Reg. towards Tsarytsin. I find that doing this by rail move tends not to be successful for White blocking forces. Those arguably could be countered by troops from Tsarytsin. But I prefer the long march via Elista (remember Operation Blue 1942?).
Those seperated partisans do what partisans best do: Staying on their home turf as divisonary forces. They force the Whites at least to garrison the important cities on Kuban. They can damage railroads. And if they should manage to re-occupy the centre town on Kuban (the one with victory points), surprise, they might even trigger the arrival of a brand new Red cossack division.
The third Red column at Kuban, the one on Taman peninsular, remains locked longer than the rest. But that one could be completely evacuated from Novossiysk by Black Sea navy going up to Liski (inland, upper Don).

From White perspective, it arguably might be a good idea just to block the rail to Tsaritsyn, conquer Novossiysk harbor and let Red Kuban forces wither to the vine.

Partisans:

For a next patch it might be an idea to seperate Reg+Mil vs. Partisan troops everywhere into different stacks from turn 1 onwards. New players might wonder, why the heck their shiny forces are moving just so slowly and get very ... unhappy.

Leaders:

Because there are so few, I started to “evacuate by beaming up” even partisan leaders from Siberia to the heartland, when things are going bad in the East. It might be a good idea even to get Blucher out. I don’t know if this long range leader evac is WAD. But the way it is now, it helps the Red side.

Units:
Apart from training Mil., some of my favorits now use to be the VOKhR Bds. They are small but punky.
Costs: 25 money, 26 conscripts, 3 WSU, 30 days
For this you get:
1x Chek line unit, 2x VOKhR Mil., 1x 76 mm. arty,
with 70 to 95 cohesion and a combat strength of 58.
Don’t know if the 2 Mil elements also can be trained.

Supply
Don’t forget to build supply wagons for building a line of supply depots towards Ukraine and Liski. You'll need it in the winter.

Greens
It arguably might be a good idea to garrison the cities with Red Guard Mil. BEFORE you start requisition & conscription.

Regards

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Kev_uk
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:06 pm

wosung wrote:Some second thoughts about the Red grand campaign:
(now playing with Clovis great “milk and honey” tool, pimping rubel income)
...

Greens
It arguably might be a good idea to garrison the cities with Red Guard Mil. BEFORE you start requisition & conscription.

Regards


Good strategy. I recommend pulling *all* back to Czaritsyn as much as able, especially with version 1.00 as cannot afford to loose anything at all, even though it might, for a time, disrupt the Southern Whites. With Clovis' mod/patch, was able to produce two high quality divisions per turn, train them in moscow and produce three strong fronts, southern, eastern and northern, roughly around 20k troops with artillery. However, still could not disrupt or effectively stop Whites as lost most stacked engagements. How did you fair? I find Whites too strong in terms of stacking...and even if roughly equal in terms of strenght, usually ends up in defeat. Poor 2-0-0 generals were a hindrance.

Need to work on Red Strategy.

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Clovis
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:13 pm

Kev_uk wrote:Good strategy. I recommend pulling *all* back to Czaritsyn as much as able, especially with version 1.00 as cannot afford to loose anything at all, even though it might, for a time, disrupt the Southern Whites. With Clovis' mod/patch, was able to produce two high quality divisions per turn, train them in moscow and produce three strong fronts, southern, eastern and northern, roughly around 20k troops with artillery. However, still could not disrupt or effectively stop Whites as lost most stacked engagements. How did you fair? I find Whites too strong in terms of stacking...and even if roughly equal in terms of strenght, usually ends up in defeat. Poor 2-0-0 generals were a hindrance.

Need to work on Red Strategy.

Don't create 3 strong fronts. Create one very strong Front, strike here, then move to another Front. As Red you will not be able to be stronger anywhere before 1920. You have to choose. Reds smashed first Siberians, then Southern Whites. They had the chance Poland has fought after both White factions were defeated: together, it will be in RUS very hard for RED to sustain this massive onslaught.
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wosung
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:59 pm

Kev_uk wrote:Good strategy. I recommend pulling *all* back to Czaritsyn as much as able, especially with version 1.00 as cannot afford to loose anything at all, even though it might, for a time, disrupt the Southern Whites. With Clovis' mod/patch, was able to produce two high quality divisions per turn, train them in moscow and produce three strong fronts, southern, eastern and northern, roughly around 20k troops with artillery. However, still could not disrupt or effectively stop Whites as lost most stacked engagements. How did you fair? I find Whites too strong in terms of stacking...and even if roughly equal in terms of strenght, usually ends up in defeat. Poor 2-0-0 generals were a hindrance.

Need to work on Red Strategy.


Well, what I basically do is trying to survive through 1919. Concentrating on the heartland and Tsaritsyn. Against the Whites positional defensive warfare. Main offensive effort 1919 is against Ukraine and the Green and later on probably against Kronstadt rebels. And then just surviving and waiting for the foreign troops to be withdrawn. And then dealing methodically and slowly with the Whites.

Outside the heartland it's only hit and run. No ambitions whatsoever.

No plans for recovering now foreig border regions. Before have crushed the Whites.

Regards

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Florent
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:05 pm

together, it will be in RUS very hard for RED to sustain this massive onslaught.

For sure but like reality the whites (in the game)don't coordinate their actions ;) and the Reds have their formidable central position reinforced by the Raillines.
Thus this is a game to learn the favorite Napoleon tactic.
When i wanted to attack somewhere i took one or two divisions from one front to the other.
In 1920 and after, i really like the figurine for the new russian divisions, very typical of Red Army.

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Clovis
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:07 pm

Florent wrote:together, it will be in RUS very hard for RED to sustain this massive onslaught.

For sure but like reality the whites (in the game)don't coordinate their actions ;) and the Reds have their formidable central position reinforced by the Raillines.
Thus this is a game to learn the favorite Napoleon tactic.
When i wanted to attack somewhere i took one or two divisions from one front to the other.
In 1920 and after, i really like the figurine for the new russian divisions, very typical of Red Army.


If Poland or Finns enter war in 1919, Red will have serious trouble to solve ;)
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Kev_uk
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:14 pm

Clovis wrote:If Poland or Finns enter war in 1919, Red will have serious trouble to solve ;)


Something I avoided was declaring war on Finland or the Baltics in the campaign 1.00..so what are you implying? That *they* could declare war without Reds causing it? Scary!!

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Florent
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:15 pm

And then just surviving and waiting for the foreign troops to be withdrawn.

I think the game is more subtil than that. The Franco-Greek fought in my games until the end of the game. I think that you have to take some important habor/towns in the south/ukraine to oust them or reaching some NM.

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Clovis
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:18 pm

Kev_uk wrote:Something I avoided was declaring war on Finland or the Baltics in the campaign 1.00..so what are you implying? That *they* could declare war without Reds causing it? Scary!!


Whites can "buy" their help. Very costly, but possible.... ;)
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Kev_uk
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:22 pm

Clovis wrote:Whites can "buy" their help. Very costly, but possible.... ;)


As if it was not so hard to be a Red player! Thanks Clovis for further problems :(

I think PBEM games are next, to defeat Clovis' mad, bad, AI!

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Florent
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Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:26 pm

If Poland or Finns enter war in 1919, Red will have serious trouble to solve

Certainly, after a save i did try to declare war on Baltic states and Finland as soon as posible to avoid NM loss but the Finns had a 31000 army :blink: and the Baltic states perhaps a bigger in two or 3 stacks.
All Bolchevic support in these countries(very small) is rapidly destroyed thus only the Ukraine offer great support with important forces.
For Poland i don't know i had no diplomatic option to attack and i did all i could to avoid Vilnius or Kiev, i'm pretty sure that it will excite the Poles and that because of this they would attack me.

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