Andy1909
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Frasers/Cavendish Light units

Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:53 am

In 1761 Britiain gets Cavendish's and Frasers Light units as part of an event.

I was just wondering where these units come from. (wargamed syw tabletop in 15mm for nigh on 20 years) I have never come across them before. Went back and checked ref material..

The closest I can come to them is...

67th Regiment of foot commanded by a Cavendish in 1757 until 1761 which took part in the raids on French coast then went to Portugal.

78th Regiment commanded by Fraser which spent it's time in North America.

No Light foot units (apart from highland units, not technically light, but used as such) served in Germany during the SYW.

Link for British army in the SYW (other pages for all other combatants)

http://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=British_Army#Regiments_of_Foot

The Prussian page also includes the names of the Prussian combined and standing Grenadier Battalions (29 Total). Some of the names in 1.02 (unit file) are of commanders who commanded the same battalion, but at different times.

eg Gren Batt 3/6 was commaned by Kleist in 1756 then Hacke in 1758.

Some of the names I haven't been able to find a reference for at all, Mosch, Rothkirch for example.

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OneArmedMexican
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:43 am

I believe, you stumbled upon one of the mistakes in AGEOD's research for this game. Don't understand me wrong, AGEOD does an amazing job at creating historically accurate games, but they are not perfect. If you ever looked at the British commanders in ACW you know what I am talking about. ;)

Frankly, I don't think one can expect perfection from a small company like AGEOD. But one of the great thing about them is that they try really hard at it. Few companies improve and patch their games as long as they do. :thumbsup:
So I guess, there is a good chance that this particular mistake will be corrected in a future patch.

As concerns the Prussian commanders: I don't see where the problem lies. The game stretches over the entire period of the Seven Years War. As long as the appropriate commanders appear at the right time, everything is fine.

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Ebbingford
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 9:21 am

Fraser's Chassseurs were formed from volunteers from the British infantry regiments, including the guards.
Cavendish's jaegers were 4 battalions of jaegers, one Hanoverian, one Hessian, one Brunswick, and one British which was Fraser's Chasseurs.

See Savory "His Britannic Majesty's Army in Germany During the Seven Years War".

Andy1909
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Always amazed

Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:55 am

Thats the one book I have never even seen (let alone afford, and the library couldn't get a copy of it either) in all my gaming, Savory. No other book I have ever seen has ever made any reference to these units. And I have never ever seen them on the tabletop. Surpising considering what Wargamers are like :)


The one explanantion I could come up with was that one book (can';t remember which) got the numbering of the highland regiments wrong, using 77th/78th and maybe thought Ageod had picked up on that.

The thing about the Prussian Grenadier units, was that someone had pointed out that there were 29 total, whereas only 25 in game. and actually 32 names used in the scenario file.

I have always been impressed by Ageod, the attention to details on things like the OOB always amazed. (I own BOA.AACW.ROP) As a SYW Wargamer a decent 18th century (European) game is what I have been waiting for. And then they give us the ability to change things. What more could you ask for.
:)

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Ebbingford
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:19 am

I got my copy of Savory from here, £65 well spent. :thumbsup:

http://www.18thcenturypress.com/savory.html

Andy1909
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:)

Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:39 am

Cool, the last time I saw a copy for sale from Caliver, it was a good few years back and going for over £150 if I remember right. That price stuck in head for some reason :)

Hadn't heard about the reprint. mmmm November, close to Christmas, feels a few hints coming on to the other half about what a suitable present would be :)

It was worth querying that light infantry stuff just for that book info. Thnx Ebbingford :)

I am still surprised that I haven't seen these units represented on the tabletop. Wargamers being who they are! :)

Andy1909
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:13 pm

Ebbingford, quick query for you. Whats the standard of the reprint like? not just photocopied is it?

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Ebbingford
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Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:43 pm

No, it's a proper printed book. You even get loose maps of the battles reprinted by permission of http://www.britishbattles.com/ with it. :D

Andy1909
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Mon Nov 08, 2010 2:27 pm

Hi Ebbingford,

OK you've have made a few people happy mentioning the reprint of the Savory book. :)

And also created a topic of discussion over the weekend. Where in the Savory book is the info. No one I have chatted with has heard of these units (including two people who have written extensively on the SYW) The only references anyone can find bearing those names are for the 67th and 78th Foot.

Thnx

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Ebbingford
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Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:22 am

In the index it is under
Fraser, Major: In command of newly formed "chasseurs", 339 n.4



P339 n4 reads
Fraser's chasseurs (they were not called jaegers) had been newly raised from volunteers from the British infantry regiments,
including the Guards. Another drain on the resources of the battalions which had to supply them.



P352
This was a strong detachment of light troops, including Fraser's chasseurs, which had been sent to keep in touch between the Erbprinz and Granby.



P370
Granby in two columns:
Column A: 15th Light Dragoons, Bauer's hussars, Beckwith's brigade and Fraser's chasseurs.



P400
On his left, at Alsfeld, was Cavendish with his four battalions of jaegers (including Fraser's chasseurs) and eleven squadrons
.


P405
Luckner had under his command Cavendish's jaegers (four battalions including Fraser's chasseurs)



And then in the index under
Cavendish, Lord Frederick :




P367/368
Lord Frederick Cavendish was allotted this task with his four battalions of jaegers,



P368 n1
The Chasseurs (or jaegers) of the army, under command of Cavendish. They had been raised from volunteers from the infantry;
each battalion on a "national" basis, i.e. one British (Fraser's chasseurs), one Hanoverian, one Hessian, and one Brunswick.


:)

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