Farfarer2
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Ai aar

Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:17 am

Perhaps this is normal, but after a large battle in Brereford north of Wesel, Keith's army retreated - to Pay Bas. I promptly used them to conquer this area immediately, then moved to France, where France fell in short order after generating 2000 VP, and three Marshalls for me.

There was no delay in the retreat from on-map to Pays Bas, so I assaulted he next turn. BTW setting is AI has + 2 FOW advantage.

in the same game, by Jan 1758, Friedrich had taken Prag, Wien and Brunn, but everyone is starving to death, even in Wien. That latter in particular was not understandable.

So Louis, Pompadour, Maria Teresa are dead I think ( caught them with cavalary in small cities).
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Clovis
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Wed Aug 11, 2010 9:23 am

Farfarer2 wrote:Perhaps this is normal, but after a large battle in Brereford north of Wesel, Keith's army retreated - to Pay Bas. I promptly used them to conquer this area immediately, then moved to France, where France fell in short order after generating 2000 VP, and three Marshalls for me.

There was no delay in the retreat from on-map to Pays Bas, so I assaulted he next turn. BTW setting is AI has + 2 FOW advantage.

in the same game, by Jan 1758, Friedrich had taken Prag, Wien and Brunn, but everyone is starving to death, even in Wien. That latter in particular was not understandable.

So Louis, Pompadour, Maria Teresa are dead I think ( caught them with cavalary in small cities).


Seems as you ran into a bunch of problems in a few moves.

First, I will upload shortly a new version of AI events as I've fixed a large error recently.

But that's not solving your concerns.

For Pays-bas and France, I will have to script something. The Keith's retreat is IMHO tied to the retreat bug recently spotted and to be fixed in the next ROP version. But yes, something must be done to force Austrian AI to protect in this case France.

For Wien, Brun and Prag, I wrote events to force AI to defend this cities when assieged. So either these events aren't working, with Austrian AI remaining passive or you repuslsed the relief columns...In any case, I would need the scriptreport file in the ROP/ script directory to know if these events fired.


Supply problems aren't AI related.

Last, I've yet to create something for the defense of the cities recently conquered by the AI. I suspect your move around WESEL wasn't really checked by the AI.
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Clovis
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Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:37 pm

For the Wien Prag stuff, I've just found a bug : the event never fired...Fixed. Thanks
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Farfarer2
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Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:44 am

Glad to help. I noted that Maria Teresa teleported to the woods of East Prussia/Poland when Wien fell.
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Pocus
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Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:57 pm

I have the vision of Maria Teresa, holding her petticoats, running into the woods without pause, while the Prussian soldiers shout after her :)
Image


Hofstadter's Law: "It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's law."

tagwyn
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RoP?

Mon Aug 16, 2010 6:50 pm

Now, Let's see? You are the developer Pocus? t :w00t:

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squarian
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Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:47 am

Pocus wrote:I have the vision of Maria Teresa, holding her petticoats, running into the woods without pause, while the Prussian soldiers shout after her :)


MT played by Benny Hill, of course.

Soderini
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:43 am

Some impressions concerning the AI in beta 5:

Grand Campaign, Prussia human, Austria AI

1. The AI is very active during winter. It keeps on sieging and moving its troops.
2. The Russians seem to hide behind their Iron Curtain, being the Polish border. In none of the campaigns I've played did they ever make a concentrated effort on Prussia. :bonk: A pity, for Russian pressure, even limited, would make life very hard for the player.
3. Otherwise, splendid job. During the 1757 campaign, Austria invaded Silesia in full force (two full armies), took most of the fortresses and soundly beated my troops there. :wacko: :coeurs:

kosmoface
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:04 am

Soderini wrote:2. The Russians seem to hide behind their Iron Curtain, being the Polish border. In none of the campaigns I've played did they ever make a concentrated effort on Prussia. :bonk:


I think in the game they act rather historically correct.

In one of my games they conquered Berlin and in two games they came with a big force to Silesia and gave me many problems. In both times they conquered Königsberg (never Kolberg though) and where most active east of the river Oder.

Baris
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:15 am

Soderini wrote:Some impressions concerning the AI in beta 5:

Grand Campaign, Prussia human, Austria AI

1. The AI is very active during winter. It keeps on sieging and moving its troops.
2. The Russians seem to hide behind their Iron Curtain, being the Polish border. In none of the campaigns I've played did they ever make a concentrated effort on Prussia. :bonk: A pity, for Russian pressure, even limited, would make life very hard for the player.


1. Switch to Austria(load ai files) and see if the have so much attrition or they are out of supply.

2. As Kosmoface said Historically in 7 Years War, Russia was "the least" performed country. They were returning to Königsberg or east Prussia to get supply. They had the biggest army of all. But they were very disorganized and not commanded well.They were mostly cossacks.(raider) This is reflected in game I think.

The biggest threat to Frederich's skill and disiplined army must be General Daun.

Soderini
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:07 pm

[quote="Baris"]2. As Kosmoface said Historically in 7 Years War, Russia was "the least" performed country. They were returning to Königsberg or east Prussia to get supply. They had the biggest army of all. But they were very disorganized and not commanded well.They were mostly cossacks.(raider) This is reflected in game I think.
QUOTE]

I'm aware of that, but historically Fritz had to implement the Russian threat into his plans, while as a player, I don't really have to. Some activity, like say sieging Stettin or Colberg, would be nice.

Also, the Russians never really did much in the Prussian heartlands because they never gained a suitable base there. If things had gone differently in 1759 the Russians might have played a far bigger role (until Elisabeth's death that is).

Baris
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 1:48 pm

"I'm aware of that, but historically Fritz had to implement the Russian threat into his plans, while as a player, I don't really have to. Some activity, like say sieging Stettin or Colberg, would be nice.

Also, the Russians never really did much in the Prussian heartlands because they never gained a suitable base there. If things had gone differently in 1759 the Russians might have played a far bigger role (until Elisabeth's death that is)".[/QUOTE]

In my game they invaded Colberg, But about Stettin it was the main target of Swedish. Maybe it needs some optimization but I have to observe further.

History is of course debatable but from most sources I read that they had a big army, twice the size of any country and additionaly concripts for reserve waiting in Russia(That is also big in number) but ineffective when compared to Austrian or Prussian army. Prussian army looks as the most disiplined and best army in the world at that time.

I don't know why things gone differently but after few years this "ineffective army" in the "Ottoman-Russian war" crushed Ottomans and razed Istanbul. But it is all about politics and what the goals they have. Ottomans was a "weaker" opponent to Russia in that time but that is not valid against Prussia.

kosmoface
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Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:21 pm

The Russians where rather reluctant to risk men or material and saw this whole affair as an Austrian war, so in their view it was better to avoid any risks. And fighting is always a big risk. ;) This led finally to a missed big chance to destroy Fredericks army on the whole, which was vastly decimated, because it was late in the war and he had lost some battles beforehand.
When the Austrian/Russian army finally attacked, Frederick had manouvered very well and was in a better position and the offensive led to nothing - if I remember right. I mean there's a reason that Frederick and Prussia got out of this alive. One reason was the Russian side.

And I remember that Stettin was conquered in one of my games, but I can't remember if it was the Russian or Swedish Army, but I think it was the Russian army.
The Russians usually go as far as the Elbe river in most of my games, but not in great numbers. I think that's okay.

Baris
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Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:31 am

Yes, it is always about risk factor and gain.

If Russia would have send more troops to Germany, than The Ottomans in the south would be the threat. Because in the end many Russian troops would die by marching very long distances and out of supply. Marching distances must have been more dangerous than the enemy at that time. And at that time frame it is all about do or die. Mostly black and white color with little gray.

Russian's must have considered it like Ottoman's commander while marching to Vienna, There was a threat Of Safavid Empire in the eastern border of Ottomans. And the ruler had no heir to the throne while he was attacking,which is more dangerous. :w00t:

I read somewhere that Ottoman Army commanded by "Suleyman The Magnificent" start marching from İstanbul to Vienna with about 120 000 troops while The Austrians commanded by Ferdinand has only 20 000. But in the end attack was unsuccessful even Otomans had a huge army.

I propose Philippes with regards that they make a game about it :) :coeurs:


I can find countless foreign interventions to Austria and Ottoman's side in that time frame.

There was very much supply problems for Ottoman army and they didnt decide to continue the siege(stay in Hungary for supplies) in 1529. Austrian's were excellent in defense on the city. And Ottoman's didnt bring enough and big artilery for assault. List goes on, It can be implemented very well by the game engine.
After the second attempt in 1683 it was failure again, resulted in decline of Ottoman empire.

It can be an excellent "what if" scenario.

Sorry for Off Topic. :cool:

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Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:01 pm

Soderini wrote:Some impressions concerning the AI in beta 5:

Grand Campaign, Prussia human, Austria AI

1. The AI is very active during winter. It keeps on sieging and moving its troops.
2. The Russians seem to hide behind their Iron Curtain, being the Polish border. In none of the campaigns I've played did they ever make a concentrated effort on Prussia. :bonk: A pity, for Russian pressure, even limited, would make life very hard for the player.
3. Otherwise, splendid job. During the 1757 campaign, Austria invaded Silesia in full force (two full armies), took most of the fortresses and soundly beated my troops there. :wacko: :coeurs:


Hi

Thanks first.

1) I've done the best for grounding the Ai during winter, but forcing it to almost full unactivty could be exploited by human players too. I firmly believe AI to be pretty immune to large attrition losses during winter months, my real objective here.

2) Russians are plagued by supply. Nothing I can do here for now.
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Clovis
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:39 pm

kosmoface wrote:I think in the game they act rather historically correct.

In one of my games they conquered Berlin and in two games they came with a big force to Silesia and gave me many problems. In both times they conquered Königsberg (never Kolberg though) and where most active east of the river Oder.


I created indeed 2 offensive plans for Russians, one going from Memel to Berlin trough Koenigsberg, Kolberg , Stettin and Kustrin, the second through Poland to Silesia. Colberg is a too though nut to crack considering the supply difficulties; from time to time, Rusian will cross the Oder, or not. Nothing I can do for that, but that's simulating RL and adding uncertainty for Prussian player...
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Clovis
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Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:44 pm

Soderini wrote:
Baris wrote:2. As Kosmoface said Historically in 7 Years War, Russia was "the least" performed country. They were returning to Königsberg or east Prussia to get supply. They had the biggest army of all. But they were very disorganized and not commanded well.They were mostly cossacks.(raider) This is reflected in game I think.
QUOTE]

I'm aware of that, but historically Fritz had to implement the Russian threat into his plans, while as a player, I don't really have to. Some activity, like say sieging Stettin or Colberg, would be nice.

Also, the Russians never really did much in the Prussian heartlands because they never gained a suitable base there. If things had gone differently in 1759 the Russians might have played a far bigger role (until Elisabeth's death that is).


They do, sometimes. I modded AI to use several plans d uringa long war. One year Russian will be very active, the next the reverse. The same for French and Austrian, in a lesser measure. And in any case, it's an AI. The best AI moves( and they are some really ones!) are based on such wrong reasons I'm frightened when I study them! But it works most of the time....
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Soderini
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Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:21 pm

Clovis wrote:
Soderini wrote:
They do, sometimes. I modded AI to use several plans d uringa long war. One year Russian will be very active, the next the reverse. The same for French and Austrian, in a lesser measure. And in any case, it's an AI. The best AI moves( and they are some really ones!) are based on such wrong reasons I'm frightened when I study them! But it works most of the time....


Then perhaps I just got bad luck and Russians decided some years in row to leave me alone? Anyway, I quit last game after during may the opponents decided en masse to take winterquarters. :blink: I'll give the new scripts you uploaded a try and report back as soon as I have something sensible to say about them.

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Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:53 pm

Soderini wrote:
Clovis wrote:
Then perhaps I just got bad luck and Russians decided some years in row to leave me alone? Anyway, I quit last game after during may the opponents decided en masse to take winterquarters. :blink: I'll give the new scripts you uploaded a try and report back as soon as I have something sensible to say about them.


The first versions had a problem with the renewal of offensive plans. I fixed that. Now the AI may keep sometimes a rather passive attitude for some months, on one or several fronts. I wanted that, because an AI always on attack will lose too much troops in the long run.
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