Die Zieten
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Northener trait suggestion.

Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:54 am

The Swedes have the Northener trait and the idea is good but im not sure it is right in the present version.


I dont think it is right to restrict the Swedes from moving out of their territory no matter where that is.

I think they should be given penalty for moving in to Hannoverian lands, Sweden didnt want to get in conflict with Great Britain.

The same way the Russians should be restricted out of Hannoverian lands, does anyone know if they where actually allied to the British still during the war?


These two restrictions would only be fair as the Prussian player cant use the British navy in the Baltic as would have happened in real life if Sweden and Russia would have attacked Hannover.

At the same time the British, Hannoverian, Hessian and Brunswick forces should be Westerner and the boundaries should be discussed.

I suggest the HRE states, France and Palatinete as where Westerners can move out without penalty.

In an PBEM we agreed to the river Elbe as a house rule border, not totally correct but easy to remember.

Anyone else have opinions and/or ideas based on this?

I would be happy if this could be a mod or a new scenario added to the game.

Maybe do new theater of war overlays so it is easy to check the areas where you shouldnt go.

I think this would only improve the game balance, espcially the PBEM, i dont know what the AI would think.

In short, everyone else has some small restrictions but Prussia, Austria and France.

This is not totally historical but more would be complicated.

The whole coalition Austria, France, Russia, HRE and Sweden can push in to Prussia proper and there Prussia is alone, so this is not helping Prussia..

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PhilThib
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Location: Meylan (France)

Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:36 am

Looks like good ideas...
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Krot
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Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:17 pm

Fully support the idea to restrict the usage of Swedish and/or Russian units west of Elbe.

Russian cossacks in Rhineland looks a bit ahistorical and gamey though very efficient game wise (with their high speed and "live off land" capabilities they can be used for scouting practically in every corner of ROP map).

Answering to the question of Die Zieten on Anglo-Russian alliance:
During SYW Russia retained diplomatic relations with England but the countries were not allies. In 1757 expired 15-year term Moscow allied treaty of 1742 (20-year term St Petrsbourg treaty signed in 1741 was not ratified by Russia because England refused to fulfill its obligations when Russo-Swedish war started the very same year).

Concerning "western" trait for Hanoverians, Hessians and Brunswikers I am not so sure (especially about the latter). As far as I remember Archenholz wrote that in 1759 or later Ferdinand "leased" substantial part of his Allied army under the command of Brunswik Erbprinz to Friedrich. I do not remember where they were employed (most part of Saxony is west of Elbe) but in such circumstances Old Frietz could well send them as far as Branderburg or Silesia.

Die Zieten
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Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:39 pm

Krot wrote:Fully support the idea to restrict the usage of Swedish and/or Russian units west of Elbe.

Russian cossacks in Rhineland looks a bit ahistorical and gamey though very efficient game wise (with their high speed and "live off land" capabilities they can be used for scouting practically in every corner of ROP map).

Answering to the question of Die Zieten on Anglo-Russian alliance:
During SYW Russia retained diplomatic relations with England but the countries were not allies. In 1757 expired 15-year term Moscow allied treaty of 1742 (20-year term St Petrsbourg treaty signed in 1741 was not ratified by Russia because England refused to fulfill its obligations when Russo-Swedish war started the very same year).

Concerning "western" trait for Hanoverians, Hessians and Brunswikers I am not so sure (especially about the latter). As far as I remember Archenholz wrote that in 1759 or later Ferdinand "leased" substantial part of his Allied army under the command of Brunswik Erbprinz to Friedrich. I do not remember where they were employed (most part of Saxony is west of Elbe) but in such circumstances Old Frietz could well send them as far as Branderburg or Silesia.



Brunswickers i did tought about and the Prussian occupied Saxony should be open to all i think?

Do you know if Austria wanted to stay out of Hannover or was it do to geography that they stayed out, where they at war with Britain?

British where not happy about the continental deployment in the first place so there should be penalties for leaving their "own" theater.

Maybe the multinational trait for commanders could also play a part in this, some can command in other theaters?

But solutions should be simple and clearly presented in messages, tooltips and map overlays!

Lets not scare people from these great games.

But we allready have these restrictions in place, just improving the current model.

Thank you Phil for considering this, im sure you have to think it from many angles first.

People can use house rules but i hope you come up with something that works for all.

bkosar19
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Sun May 12, 2013 2:55 pm

I really like the idea of adding in more restrictions as to where nations can move their armies in order to reflect their actual political goals. My biggest issue with ROP is how the AI treats its forces as just one big blob with the exact same goal rather than a coalition of self-interested nations with their own agendas. Providing restrictions as to where certain nationalities can move their armies would provide additional historical flavor, reflect individual nation's political motivations, and avoid unrealistic depictions of armies wandering into places they would have NEVER gone in real life.

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Pat "Stonewall" Cleburne
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Mon May 13, 2013 10:12 pm

This makes sense if it's done better than in RUS. The AI isn't good enough to manage all these added layers of where troops can and can't move. If it was a hard rule (ie the regions are grayed out and can't be entered at all) or if it just doesn't apply to the AI I'd be fine with it. Otherwise it will take alot of AI tweaking to keep the AI from getting crushed by these region specific rules.

Baris
AGEod Guard of Honor
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Mon May 13, 2013 11:12 pm

This is addressed in ROP Gold. Now they are regarded as neutral and they can not even enter each others core territory. Movement is much restricted than RUS. Ex: Western part of HRE territory only reachable if played by France.
Plus they have different objectives though Berlin is the common one.

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Ebbingford
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Mon May 13, 2013 11:17 pm

Baris wrote:This is addressed in ROP Gold. Now they are regarded as neutral and they can not even enter each others core territory. Movement is much restricted than RUS. Ex: Western part of HRE territory only reachable if played by France.
Plus they have different objectives though Berlin is the common one.


I think this only applies to the 4 player scenario.
In this French troops are not allowed to enter Austrian controlled regions and vica versa, you are only allowed to enter regions controlled by you or your enemy.
It does seem to focus the AI more though. :thumbsup:
"Umbrellas will not be opened in the presence of the enemy." Duke of Wellington before the Battle of Waterloo, 1815.

"Top hats will not be worn in the Eighth Army" Field-Marshal Viscount Montgomery of Alamein K.G.


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